Author Topic: Defensive Personalities  (Read 19566 times)

AFK

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Defensive Personalities
« on: December 12, 2006, 02:50:43 pm »
I was thinking about this during my commute to work this morning.

Assuming one of our aims with BIP, etc. is to open minds, how do you deal with a defensive personality?  Or do you?

I'm just thinking you can start an honest and civil discussion with someone about BIP/Discordian ideas, etc.  In general sort of terms of course.

Then, if you are dealing with someone who tends to be quite defensive, you get to that point where something snaps in their head:  "Wait, are you preaching to me?"  or "Are you trying to convert me?" or something along those lines.

Is there a way to diffuse this? 

Thoughts?
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l0c0dantes

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Re: Defensive Personalities
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2006, 02:52:46 pm »
I think the best way to do it would be to screen your audience in advance. If you were to know someone was deeply religous, you would be better off not giving anything a name, because it is less scary / disturbing / diffrent that way

Cain

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Re: Defensive Personalities
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2006, 02:55:31 pm »
I play it by ear but there are a number of ways to get past a defensive person's metality.  Several of them are, to me, quite underhand and possibly dangerous in the wrong hands, but the most simple advice is to understand their worldview, sympathise with it and work from within that model to undermine it.
"The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before? Only the Logos allows one to mitigate that slavery. Only knowing the sources of thought and action allows us to own our thoughts and our actions, to throw off the yoke of circumstance."
- R. Scott Bakker, The Darkness That Comes Before

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Re: Defensive Personalities
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2006, 02:57:24 pm »
Tone and attitude are two major things to watch out for.

That, and use of buzzwords.

If you can steer a conversation towards BIP concepts, you shouldn't sound preachy, and you aren't trying to "win".  You're trying for self-discovery.  If you sound preachy, or use differnently-defined words (Prison Break, Barstool, Machine™, CoN, etc), your subject won't come to the conclusions themselves, they'll feel they are being fed a crock of shit.

And you can't give them the whole spiel at once, you have to let them digest the small bits of it first, and then maybe they'll be able to see a lager picture.
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Re: Defensive Personalities
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2006, 02:57:46 pm »
I play it by ear but there are a number of ways to get past a defensive person's metality.  Several of them are, to me, quite underhand and possibly dangerous in the wrong hands, but the most simple advice is to understand their worldview, sympathise with it and work from within that model to undermine it.


That sounds suspiciously like Scientology, actually.
LMNO
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"Get offa me, you freaks!  This is not North Korea.  No.  This is America, and I expect to be PAID for that sort of nonsense.  In advance.  No credit...Cash on the barrelhead or GTFO.  I swear to God, there's nothing more annoying than commie perverts who don't understand the intrinsic value of the free market system."

Cain

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Re: Defensive Personalities
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2006, 03:01:33 pm »
I play it by ear but there are a number of ways to get past a defensive person's metality.  Several of them are, to me, quite underhand and possibly dangerous in the wrong hands, but the most simple advice is to understand their worldview, sympathise with it and work from within that model to undermine it.


That sounds suspiciously like Scientology, actually.

Dr Heracy passed along a small ton of text files on Scientology to me a while back.  I also have several dozen books on eliciting information from people - from police interrogation techniques to body language to so-called seduction techniques.  All of them come down to the same basic idea, really, though the approaches are different based on context and aim.
"The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before? Only the Logos allows one to mitigate that slavery. Only knowing the sources of thought and action allows us to own our thoughts and our actions, to throw off the yoke of circumstance."
- R. Scott Bakker, The Darkness That Comes Before

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Re: Defensive Personalities
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2006, 03:11:58 pm »
And let's not forget L Ron spent quite a lot of time with Crowley and the Golden Dawn.
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"Get offa me, you freaks!  This is not North Korea.  No.  This is America, and I expect to be PAID for that sort of nonsense.  In advance.  No credit...Cash on the barrelhead or GTFO.  I swear to God, there's nothing more annoying than commie perverts who don't understand the intrinsic value of the free market system."

Cain

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Re: Defensive Personalities
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2006, 03:17:04 pm »
I thought it was the OTO he was more involved with?  Though of course I don't doubt Crowley took most of their useful stuff with him to the OTO.
"The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before? Only the Logos allows one to mitigate that slavery. Only knowing the sources of thought and action allows us to own our thoughts and our actions, to throw off the yoke of circumstance."
- R. Scott Bakker, The Darkness That Comes Before

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Re: Defensive Personalities
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2006, 03:21:27 pm »
Maybe it was the OTO.

But I do recall a rumor that L Ron and AC tried to create the Moonchild.
LMNO
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"Get offa me, you freaks!  This is not North Korea.  No.  This is America, and I expect to be PAID for that sort of nonsense.  In advance.  No credit...Cash on the barrelhead or GTFO.  I swear to God, there's nothing more annoying than commie perverts who don't understand the intrinsic value of the free market system."

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Re: Defensive Personalities
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2006, 03:22:46 pm »
And ripped open bloody great holes in the fabric of reality.  But that was this century, so it had to be OTO.
"The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before? Only the Logos allows one to mitigate that slavery. Only knowing the sources of thought and action allows us to own our thoughts and our actions, to throw off the yoke of circumstance."
- R. Scott Bakker, The Darkness That Comes Before

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Re: Defensive Personalities
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2006, 03:33:59 pm »
Gotcha.


Y'know, maybe I should get my Scientologist brother The Book of Lies for Xmas.
LMNO
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Buy the Chao te Ching, or be doomed forever.

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"Get offa me, you freaks!  This is not North Korea.  No.  This is America, and I expect to be PAID for that sort of nonsense.  In advance.  No credit...Cash on the barrelhead or GTFO.  I swear to God, there's nothing more annoying than commie perverts who don't understand the intrinsic value of the free market system."

Thurnez Isa

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Re: Defensive Personalities
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2006, 03:38:02 pm »
your brothers a scientologist?

you probably know more about the religion then most of us

i haven't even heard of a scientologist up here
they probably havent pierced this far north
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Abandon all hope, you who enter here.

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Re: Defensive Personalities
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2006, 03:41:07 pm »
Where you at?


Scientology seems to be everywhere.
LMNO
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First Church of Last Exit Before Toll
The Spider Project.

Buy the Chao te Ching, or be doomed forever.

http://www.stonybrook.edu/sb/marburger/index.shtml

"Get offa me, you freaks!  This is not North Korea.  No.  This is America, and I expect to be PAID for that sort of nonsense.  In advance.  No credit...Cash on the barrelhead or GTFO.  I swear to God, there's nothing more annoying than commie perverts who don't understand the intrinsic value of the free market system."

Cain

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Re: Defensive Personalities
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2006, 03:43:30 pm »
Its not too hard to learn about Scientology, actually.  Despite the leadership's paranoia inspired secrecy, alt.scientology, operation clambake and xenu.net all have tons of good information and alt.scientology often puts up text versions of Scientology books and other works for the public to steal.
"The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before? Only the Logos allows one to mitigate that slavery. Only knowing the sources of thought and action allows us to own our thoughts and our actions, to throw off the yoke of circumstance."
- R. Scott Bakker, The Darkness That Comes Before

Thurnez Isa

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Re: Defensive Personalities
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2006, 03:44:38 pm »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Sudbury%2C_Ontario

honestly havent heard of any scientolgists
pretty sure they dont have a church anywhere up here
though they maybe really underground
Through me the way to the city of woe, Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost.
Justice moved my maker on high.
Divine power made me, Wisdom supreme, and Primal love.
Before me nothing was but things eternal, and eternal I endure.
Abandon all hope, you who enter here.

Dante