Defensive Personalities

[Cain]

Actually, I think Canada and the CoS are not on the best of terms.  The UK threw Hubbard out in the 60s and many commonwealth states took a similar stance, because of the common law thing.

[Thurnez Isa]

i know alot of stuff about scientology in terms of their core beliefs

but cause ive never met one or talked to one Ive never had a "feeling" for it
- best way I could describe it
kind of like when the jehovas come to your door you could get a better idea of their faith by talking to them rather then reading those little pamphlets they hand out

there is a scientology church down in toronto, but honestly everytime im in the big city the thought never crossed my mind

[LMNO, PhD (life continues)]

This is the closest I found.

http://www.scientology-tor.ca/

[Laz]

The more i read on this site, the more controllingand anti-discordian the posts seem to be.

Assuming one of our aims with BIP, etc. is to open minds, how do you deal with a defensive personality?  Or do you?

If your aim is to forcibly open peoples heads and insert your dogma instead of the one they currenty carry, then please to be going ahead! Like it was pointed out, this is like the dyanetics idiots on the street with their clipboards and surveys.

Then, if you are dealing with someone who tends to be quite defensive, you get to that point where something snaps in their head:  "Wait, are you preaching to me?"  or "Are you trying to convert me?" or something along those lines.

There's just one way to deal with a defensive personality in my experience, leave them well alone. If you can't have an open a frank discussion with them, it's not your place to change them. Just like all of us, the change has to be made internally and on our own terms, they'll hopefully figure it out one day.

Is there a way to diffuse this? 

Just walk away.

[LHX]

what are the principles of Discordianism as you see them?

if youre interested on the background of this situation - the issues you are bringing up were all brought back in April or May
- there was some concern about what seemed to be anti-discordian


but
what course of action do you take when you come to a point where you acknowledge that you personally have more freedom of movement when everybody has freedom of movement?

and notice i said freedom of movement



one of the things that get mentioned from time to time is how strange it is that everybody here disagrees on virtually everything EXCEPT that one principle

you are right: it is a matter of self savior

but its also a matter of making the tools available for people to help themselves as well


if i was in a situation where it was realistic to 'leave people alone' and 'be left alone', then thats exactly what i do

but as long as im in a situation where people approach me, im gonna be encouraging them not to come with the same re-packaged shit thats already been heard before



who helped you make your 'internal change'?
do you believe it was for the better?
wouldnt you want to see other people have that same opportunity?

[LMNO, PhD (life continues)]

Laz,

Have you forgotten The Primer for Erisian Evangelicists, in our very own Principia Discordia?

Those are the seeds we are growing, and they have reached this stage.  Some of us have reached the conclusion that letting cabbages walk around being cabbage-y is not "wu-wei" or "live and let live"-- it's just lazy.


Coleslaw, baby.  Coleslaw.

[LHX]

Have you forgotten The Primer for Erisian Evangelicists, in our very own Principia Discordia?

wait...

you mean theres a book about this??

[LMNO, PhD (life continues)]

Clicky Linkie, darling.

[Laz]

what are the principles of Discordianism as you see them?

See the word principle bothers me there, the fact that there is a book on the subject bothers me further, even this forum bothers me and is to strict with conformances to OP's being used as weapons, but i accept that you can't speak to everyone individually so the written word is best when it is shared.

For me discordianism is everything that the law and order of society isn't. To constrain people to rules and to educate them in how to put themselves in prison is fundamentally loathsome.

The best thing i can see is to let them come to you (i'm not against that your know), let them engage you and then explain how things are. If they chose to argue, show them answers, but when they become stuck like records or defensive to the point they play all offended then time has come to walk away, not everybody can be saved. Some love their little boxes.

and notice i said freedom of movement

I did notice, and got confused, movement is irrelevant, i am born of this planet so this planet is mine and nobody should stop me crossing borders or countries. If you refer to us having more movement available than ever before then i would say that that is true but we are behind more bars than ever, you try staying in a country when your visa runs out.

'leave people alone' and 'be left alone'

Not me, i can mix it with the best of them and like to be taken for a ride myself.

but as long as im in a situation where people approach me, im gonna be encouraging them not to come with the same re-packaged shit thats already been heard before

Completely agree, but i was refering before to those that just argue the same point and are defensive to the point of distraction.

who helped you make your 'internal change'?

It was a religious nut who kept chaning his name and personality. He was an arrogant, stubborn, son of a bitch called either Joe, Preacher Joe, Bubba Joe, or Mahadava depending on his mood.

do you believe it was for the better?

Absolutely, but i was the seeker, he didn't come looking for me, and quite often refused to reply to me at all.

wouldnt you want to see other people have that same opportunity?

Everybody already has the opportunity, always have had.

By the way, incase i don't get a chance later, Merry Christmas everyone :0)

[LMNO, PhD (life continues)]

For me discordianism is everything that the law and order of society isn't. To constrain people to rules and to educate them in how to put themselves in prison is fundamentally loathsome.

So, you're an anarchist?


What about the Hodge and Podge?

Not to mention, the Eristic Illusion.




LMNO
-Old School Erisian Theologist.

[Laz]

Have you forgotten The Primer for Erisian Evangelicists, in our very own Principia Discordia?

Just started reading it, haven't got that far yet. Only read Illuminatus book one so far but the "principles" of Discordianism/Erisism are very familiar to me.

Those are the seeds we are growing, and they have reached this stage.  Some of us have reached the conclusion that letting cabbages walk around being cabbage-y is not "wu-wei" or "live and let live"-- it's just lazy.

Whatever works for you LMNO, personally banging my head against a wall continually, hurts.

[Laz]

So, you're an anarchist?

Boxes, boxes! If you want to know me, get to know me

[LMNO, PhD (life continues)]

Just working off the information you're giving me, sweetie.

[Laz]

judging, guessing, assigning, filing, breifing, de-briefing, indexing, stamping, numbering, Ooh, i've gone all Prisoner!

[My Other Username Is A Pseudonym]

The more i read on this site, the more controllingand anti-discordian the posts seem to be.

Assuming one of our aims with BIP, etc. is to open minds, how do you deal with a defensive personality?  Or do you?

If your aim is to forcibly open peoples heads and insert your dogma instead of the one they currenty carry, then please to be going ahead! Like it was pointed out, this is like the dyanetics idiots on the street with their clipboards and surveys.

who said anything about using force?  The issue I am talking about is when you engage in a consentual discussion and then defenses get put up.  I've had experience with this and I was looking for insight from others.  

Then, if you are dealing with someone who tends to be quite defensive, you get to that point where something snaps in their head:  "Wait, are you preaching to me?"  or "Are you trying to convert me?" or something along those lines.

There's just one way to deal with a defensive personality in my experience, leave them well alone. If you can't have an open a frank discussion with them, it's not your place to change them. Just like all of us, the change has to be made internally and on our own terms, they'll hopefully figure it out one day.

Again, as others have mentioned.  It isn't the goal for us to change them.  It is for them to change themselves.  Or at least be able to see that there are such options.  I've always said that those armed with themselves have the best chance at making it.