Author Topic: What is this section about (n00bs read this!)  (Read 56729 times)

Cain

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What is this section about (n00bs read this!)
« on: January 25, 2007, 09:39:52 pm »
LMNO, LHX, RWHN?  Care to comment?

AFK

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Re: What is this section about (n00bs read this!)
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2007, 09:53:41 pm »
Alright, I'm going to approach this from an organizational perspective and leave the philosophy to LMNO and LHX as they are much more adept at describing those things than I am.

The Black Iron Prison was/is an effort to revisit Discordia in written form.  The general consensus, if it can be called that, was that while the original Principia Discordia holds important messages and philosophies, we wondered if some of the humor and language might be dated and lost on a younger generation of Discordians.  Also, we are all egotistical blowhards who like to see our thoughts in print.   :-D

So, we discussed ideas, memes, philosophies, etc., then we all started writing.  The first result was The Black Iron Prison: Discordia Revisited.  Click here to download it and read it if you haven't already.  Plans were made while this first pamphlet was being put together to produce more pamphlets, we even had titles like "Lollercaust" which would have been a more "humorous" effort with more modern humor infused into the writings.  Of course, we all have lives, jobs, etc. so things did stall a bit.  And then came the pd.com crash...

...so during the downtime a new message board was created where we could continue to discuss more ideas, philosophies, memes, definitions, deconstructions, so on and so forth.  When pd.com came back up for good, and was under new management, the effort was moved back here.  (of course the Black Iron Prison Forum crash kind of turned that into a necessity).

And so that is where we are today.  That is the logistics of it.  Again, LMNO and LHX can fill in the philosophical details and other things I'm sure I missed.  Hope this is of some benefit.  I encourage n00bs, lurkers, etc. to download the pamphlet and read it.  Share it with their friends and family.  And then, join the fray!
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LHX

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Re: What is this section about (n00bs read this!)
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2007, 02:34:38 am »
This is a tough thing to summarize in clear simple terms, but lemme give it a shot.

See if I can shoot some darts here - feel free to edit/refine/critic:

There seems to be a few things that we do here:

- the map is not the territory, but we seek to compile the most effective map to use to navigate the territory

- we investigate obstacles to see whether they are real or illusions

- we investigate the limitations of working as individuals and working as a group

- there seems to be a relationship between freedom and responsibility, so we work to determine what nature of responsibilities a person could possibly have in this context

- we seem to have become comfortable with an approach at discussing new issues that seems to combine Occam's Razor and Maybe Logic
- this approach seems to be effective at getting to the core of any new issues that come up

- we dont claim to 'know' anything 'special', but rather we just seem to have developed a real effective system of deconstructing complex things so that they can be made useful

- the real tie that seems to bind people together here is a burning desire to cut thru the bullshit wherever it may appear
like a anti-bullshit task force


we understand the danger of making claims, so we dont make any of them



other trends:
- occult knowledge
- producing materials loosely related to 'Discordianism'


the closest we come to making a claim is saying that we believe people should have the opportunity to think freely, and we try to encourage and provide tools for people to do that




im gonna post this and then re-read it later to see how much of it is bullshit
neat hell

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Re: What is this section about (n00bs read this!)
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2007, 01:17:57 pm »
I thnk of this sub forum as the place where New Ideas go.  It's not talking about the PD, it's not just nonsequitor babble, it's not dinner recipies, it's not literature, and it's not rants.

It's also looking like this is where plans for dissemination are born.  Pamphlets, podcasts, video, etc.
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LHX

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Re: What is this section about (n00bs read this!)
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2007, 01:34:20 pm »
we lurve new ideas


LHX - is oddly aroused
neat hell

AFK

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Re: What is this section about (n00bs read this!)
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2007, 01:51:43 pm »
LMNO makes a good point.  A n00b might ask "what's the difference between the Principia Discordia subforum and The Black Iron Prison Subforum.  I would think the former is to discuss the former literature and the latter the new ideas that we are coming up with.  Of course, it seems that this group is more interested in discussing new ideas than rehashing ideas from the PD.  But, delving into those discussions from time to time are good for not only orientating the new person, but keeping the rest of us grounded as well. 
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LHX

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Re: What is this section about (n00bs read this!)
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2007, 02:00:39 pm »
it might be helpful to be able to define what exactly it was in the PD that provided the background for all this


because this seems to be a logical progression of that


principles in practice

applied lessons


what does Sepia's sig say?
Post-Modern Anarchism?


being subversive without the whining and crying
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Re: What is this section about (n00bs read this!)
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2007, 02:10:32 pm »
I dunno... I guess it was an actualization of the Law of Fives, Starbucks pebbles, and the An/Eristic Illusions, really.

That seems to be the  most important things in the PD, and they're all related to the habit humans have of eating the menu.
LMNO
Pope/Wrought Iron Instigator
First Church of Last Exit Before Toll
The Spider Project.

Buy the Chao te Ching, or be doomed forever.

http://www.stonybrook.edu/sb/marburger/index.shtml

"Get offa me, you freaks!  This is not North Korea.  No.  This is America, and I expect to be PAID for that sort of nonsense.  In advance.  No credit...Cash on the barrelhead or GTFO.  I swear to God, there's nothing more annoying than commie perverts who don't understand the intrinsic value of the free market system."

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Re: What is this section about (n00bs read this!)
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2007, 02:24:33 pm »
Personal Observation - I read PD just before I joined here. Later the same day I read BIP. Loved them both but the contrast was glaringly obvious: PD was upbeat, laughing at the absurdity of it all, BIP was downbeat and sounded sorta angry and bummed by the whole deal. Neither were news to me personally but I gotta admit I prefer to laugh when I'm reading something, even if the topic IS deadly serious, which I happen to think it was in both publications.

I don't know if finding a balance is the right way to approach this or even if that's possible. Suggest alternating releases between 1 totally sinister, angst ridden one (because I know not everyone likes to laugh at everything) and a funny upbeat release (because a lot of people do)
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Re: What is this section about (n00bs read this!)
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2007, 02:27:06 pm »
Yeah.  We really should get Lollercaust off the ground.
LMNO
Pope/Wrought Iron Instigator
First Church of Last Exit Before Toll
The Spider Project.

Buy the Chao te Ching, or be doomed forever.

http://www.stonybrook.edu/sb/marburger/index.shtml

"Get offa me, you freaks!  This is not North Korea.  No.  This is America, and I expect to be PAID for that sort of nonsense.  In advance.  No credit...Cash on the barrelhead or GTFO.  I swear to God, there's nothing more annoying than commie perverts who don't understand the intrinsic value of the free market system."

AFK

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Re: What is this section about (n00bs read this!)
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2007, 02:27:53 pm »
Here's a couple of sections I think are important.

Quote from: Principia Discordia
NONSENSE AS SALVATION

The human race will begin solving it's problems on the day that it ceases taking itself so seriously.


It is a rather general statement but I think the spirit of it is valid.  I think the day-to-day concerted effort at being a good human on this planet focuses people to the point where they lose sight of the bigger picture around them.  I think this can translate to not recognizing the bars of the prison and to see that there are multiple paths that they weren't even aware of.  

Quote from: Principia Discordia
A SERMON ON ETHICS AND LOVE

        One day Mal-2 asked the messenger spirit Saint Gulik to approach the Goddess and request Her presence for some desperate advice. Shortly afterwards the radio came on by itself, and an ethereal female Voice said YES?

        "O! Eris! Blessed Mother of Man! Queen of Chaos! Daughter of Discord! Concubine of Confusion! O! Exquisite Lady, I beseech You to lift a heavy burden from my heart!"

        WHAT BOTHERS YOU, MAL? YOU DON'T SOUND WELL.

        "I am filled with fear and tormented with terrible visions of pain. Everywhere people are hurting one another, the planet is rampant with injustices, whole societies plunder groups of their own people, mothers imprison sons, children perish while brothers war. O, woe."

        WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH THAT, IF IT IS WHAT YOU WANT TO DO?

        "But nobody wants it! Everybody hates it."

        OH. WELL, THEN STOP.

        At which moment She turned herself into an aspirin commercial and left The Polyfather stranded alone with his species.

I think this section is appropriate.  We've all heard the statements, "Oh well if humans would all stop being so stupid!", or something to that affect.  I think this section is appropriate as it illustrates that it really isn't necessarily that simple.  Sure, a lot of people say they want World Peace, or that they want to end Poverty, or they want to win the War on Drugs, Terror, whatever.  But, the thing is, it's probably safe to say it's never going to happen where everyone just stops and plays nice.  On paper it sounds simple, but when you are dealing with different societies, cultures, grids, personalities, etc., etc., it gets really sticky.  
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

AFK

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Re: What is this section about (n00bs read this!)
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2007, 02:30:23 pm »
Personal Observation - I read PD just before I joined here. Later the same day I read BIP. Loved them both but the contrast was glaringly obvious: PD was upbeat, laughing at the absurdity of it all, BIP was downbeat and sounded sorta angry and bummed by the whole deal. Neither were news to me personally but I gotta admit I prefer to laugh when I'm reading something, even if the topic IS deadly serious, which I happen to think it was in both publications.

I don't know if finding a balance is the right way to approach this or even if that's possible. Suggest alternating releases between 1 totally sinister, angst ridden one (because I know not everyone likes to laugh at everything) and a funny upbeat release (because a lot of people do)

Perhaps with a different cast of characters we will have more success this time around.  And perhaps it will be easier to find a balance.
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

LHX

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Re: What is this section about (n00bs read this!)
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2007, 04:18:41 pm »
the only way it can get worse is if it settles


even bad moves are good moves just by virtue of being moves





lol

fuck
neat hell

Jenne

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Re: What is this section about (n00bs read this!)
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2007, 06:38:56 pm »
Silly's point is a good one.  I think a thread should be made to call out for "Teh Silly"...

Should I do it?

And good thread, Guys...I think this was needed, esp when guys like that Laz show up and get it backward and insided out.

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Re: What is this section about (n00bs read this!)
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2007, 06:40:43 pm »
Silly's point is a good one.  I think a thread should be made to call out for "Teh Silly"...

Should I do it?

And good thread, Guys...I think this was needed, esp when guys like that Laz show up and get it backward and insided out.

we tried

forced funnay = teh contrived and unfunnay
neat hell