Mah Musics

[The Littlest Ubermensch]

Hey everybody. Please check out my music at my myspacewww.myspace.com/djtaumi.

Tell me what you think of the tracks I've posted if you get around to hearing them please. (unless you're LMNO, because I already know you hate rave music)

[The Littlest Ubermensch]

[shameless bump]

[Ambassador KAOS]

I checked out what you ahd on myspace, pretty good brekbeat drum and bass techno.

Are you really 14, because so I give you uber props.

I often wish I had started my project when I was younger, but kay sirah sirah.

I am geussing your using reason for this?
Just curious.

If you ever wanna throw a track on any of my discs for my side project (i often bring in guest dj's for that) let me know.  It won't make you famous or anything but I distribute them to the locals and it will get your noise around some.

I did have one recomendation for mixing though.

I'm assuming your using an all software ap for this yes?

It sounded like you had one level of digital track of drums that stayed at the same level throughout which I thought detracted a bit.

Try copy and pasting the drum track 3 times and then muting (or erasing) 0, 1, or 2 tracks depending on how loud you want the drums to be for that loop.  This will not only make them sound less synthetic as they will vary more, but it will also add emphasis and airiness to various points in the song.

Try not to take that in a negative way, I did like your tunes.

AKK

[Lies]

It's posts like this AKK that give me hope that there is person worth listening to with constructive advice to give.
Even if I'm not sure what I think of your music.

If you could be like this more often you wouldn't be getting so much hate atm.

[LMNO, PhD (life continues)]

Rather than using up 3 tracks for the drum pattern, you could always, y'know, adjust the volume automation.

[Ambassador KAOS]

Rather than using up 3 tracks for the drum pattern, you could always, y'know, adjust the volume automation.

yeah but I was assuming he was opperating with a simple system that only let you have one volume per track and he set it where it sounded best through out.

that would fix that problem.

If ihe had independant volume levels then he probably would not have made such mistake to begin with IMO

not that it would be a mistake if he didn't have the option.

[Misery's Feed Trough]

of course if it were me, I'd just use some pots and pans and a mic.  But, that's just me. 

[LMNO, PhD (life continues)]

Which systems these days let you multitrack, but don't have automated volume?  Hell, even manual volume would work.

Not to mention, with multiple tracks, you'll get phase cancellation, wich will change the sound of the tracks.  Which, if unintended, is not a good thing.

[Ambassador KAOS]

Which systems these days let you multitrack, but don't have automated volume?  Hell, even manual volume would work.

Not to mention, with multiple tracks, you'll get phase cancellation, wich will change the sound of the tracks.  Which, if unintended, is not a good thing.

cheap drum machines work that way.

I've used a few in my day (ZOOM)

[That One Guy]

To be fair, he said it was rave music. Rave music only puts the drums in and out, not changes the volume (most of the time, and is part of why it grates on my fucking nerves after a few minutes). Hell, he might have WANTED it to all be the same volume. Conversely, he might not have known about the automated volume features, or was using analog (non-comp) equipment and just set-it-and-forget-it. MUCH is involved in what specific programs/instruments/devices were being used. A drum machine and a synth going in to a 4-track can still sound pretty good, but limits your options after all.

In rave/dance-hall techno, the best way to de-emphasize the drums is to just cut them out for a bar or two - the synths are percussive enough to carry the tempo. At most you probably want to fade up a snare build before coming back in with the full drum loop again. Another option is to drop out parts of the loop - for example, drop out the snare for a measure or two then reintroduce it, or even drop out some of the beats to build a section.

Also, using multiple tracks of the same drum loop is ... not a good idea. All you really need is a stereo-pair track (if you're taking a drum loop) or a half-dozen or so tracks (kick, snare [top and bottom if you want some variety in the snare sound], one each tom, and an overhead pair) if you're using something like Pro Tools or similar programs and recording a live kit. Add in a stereo-pair for an effects track (for reverb and any delays/gates/filters/compressors)  and there you go.

Making copies opens up (even more) phase cancellation options, and that - as LMNO said - is very bad. It's already relatively easy to get phase cancellation when mic'ing a kit, especially in a large room or with distance mics.

And yes, I went to college for this 

[Ambassador KAOS]

like I said I was assuming he was using a single track drum machine one volume for the whole kit.

listen to the drums on the track and you'll see why I think that.

If that's true my suggestion would be good, if it's not and he had better equipment then he needs to learn to use his tools better.  I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. 

[the dreadful hours]

I dig it. 

[That One Guy]

Having given it a bit more in-depth of a listen, 

Some very nice jungle-style techno, especially considering the probably limited equipment. As far as the earlier drum track debates, the ONLY thing I can think of (and this might have been impossible due to channel limitations on your gear Ubermensch) is that the drums sounded a little flat since they were mono. If you have the track space/ability next time, I'd double the drum loop's track, pan one track to about 45 left, the other to about 135 right (about half [45 degrees] each way). That would really help give the drums (the anchor of jungle techno) some more depth. Keeping both tracks at the same volume is key for this.  Alternatively, if the drum machine or synth you were using has a stereo out (even if it's all digital on the comp) make sure you use it - space in the drums is key, especially in techno.

The volume being constant was fine to me - jungle techno especially is all about the play of the synths on top of that jungle beat. The rhythmic interplay and layering of the melodies/synth lines is what gives volume and texture to jungle and I really liked what was happening with that Uber, especially with the added arpeggio stuff that came in at points. With jungle even more than most other types/styles of techno, the drums are the anchor that helps keep things moving. A little more depth to the drums and that is some definite quality 

Keep doing what you're doing and try to get better gear. Quality!

[The Littlest Ubermensch]

To adress the various things brought up in this thread:

1. Thanks for noticing my stuff!
2. My mixdown sucks insanely. I'm very aware of this, and trying to get better. Probably a combination of my rather limited software (just Acid 5.0 and a massive army of VSTs), my horrible speakers (by music creation standards, anyways), and the fact that I'm new.
3. At the time of the creation of that song, I was rendering all of my drums into one track, which was fucking with the quality quite a bit. I've moved on past that, though I still really don't know how to effectively use panning. Any helpful hints would be great with that.
4. TOG is about right with the idea behind the drums. Volume change in the percussion isn't something that happens all that much in most EDM, though more depth would definitely be helpful.

[That One Guy]

As far as panning the drums goes, think of looking at a drum kit in front of you. The kick will be straight ahead, the snare will be a little to the right of that with the hi hat a bit further to the right still. The toms will be spread to the left, with the highest-pitched in the center and the lowest/deepest pitched tom to the far left. Depending on how many toms you use, spread them like a fan to the left. Cymbals will generally be spread through the entire range. Generally keeping everything within about 45 degrees each way from center is best, as spreading out the drums too much can make the kit seem over-large.

If you set the kit up like that, it will give the listener the perspective of being in the audience looking at the drummer. Alternately, you can reverse it so that it puts the listener up on stage behind the kit. That's the general rock/band set-up for recording drums, and techno has generally adopted it as it's what people are used to hearing on recordings and in live music.

Keep in mind though, that nothing is set in stone, especially with techno. Start off with things panned like I list above, then play around with it and find where YOU are most comfortable with it on any given track. Sometimes you'll want the floor of the drums to be wide and booming, other times you'll want it to be small and tight. Usually with techno a middle-ground is best, keeping a solid base that keeps a steady center for the synths to explore the sonic space of the song.

Adding a little reverb to the overall drums (IE send all the drum tracks to a stereo pair that you then put the reverb on) helps give them depth as well - generally you want a mid-sized room setting and not much reverb time with techno so that it won't be too washy. The drums should be tight but have space, so you don't need to have the reverb tracks up too far in the mix - generally it should only be around 35% or so of the main drum level, but adjusting the effects track levels is a great way to tweak the depth of the drums in a mix.

Play around with it and find what sounds best to you