Taboo Soup

[Darth Cupcake]

I was trying to go a bit deeper than that, like for example the many valuable food sources out there, and we have people starving. Or establishing how we're told what we can eat. But I think you summed it up okay.

1) That's a distribution problem rather than a "what do we eat" problem regarding starving people. We HAVE enough food for 99% of the population (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that), but the distribution of that food to all of the people that need it is the issue. Besides, get hungry enough and there is NO food that is taboo. Cannibalism, eating insects, even your neighboor's cat or dog. Get hungry enough and you WILL eat it, because the survival instinct overrides your pre-existing conditioning. Or you starve.

2) "What we're told we can eat" is merely societal conditioning. One society conditions its members that beef is taboo (the Sacred Cow) but chicken is fine. Another conditions that dog meat or horse meat is acceptable. If you change your conditioning (say, convert to Hinduism) part of reconfiguring your conditioning is to replace one set of arbitrary limits (in this case whatever you currently think is "taboo" to eat) with the arbitrary limits of the societal framework you're accepting (in this case, beef becomes "taboo" and other things that might have been taboo to you will now be socially acceptable).

Ditch the need or desire to follow societal conditions and there are NO taboos that are imposed from outside. Your only limits become the limits you place on yourself, not just with food but with everything.

After further reflection I have to disagree with what you siad under number one:

The problem isn't distribution. The problem is we lost the basic skills it takes to feed ourselves or family. We're dependent on someone else to feed us, regardless of what social factors lead us to this point. This holds true to a third world country as does to microwaving a T.V. dinner.

There are conditions that prevent you from building your own weapons and going out and bagging yourself a meal and then preparing it. Wehter it's your neighbors kid, or a giraffe, doesn't matter someones always there to fuck with you. It boils down to  a loss of knowledge.

What you say is true. But the previous statement is also true--there is a big distribution problem. Just stand outside any restaurant and watch how much food they throw out. I worked in food service for years and it is insane how much we just chuck. One of my coworkers used to steal our leftovers at the end of the night and bring them to homeless shelters in the area, which I thought was great.

But bottom line is that we had tons of leftover muffins and bagels. Over in Africa, not so much. Even for many people in my neighborhood, not so much. We can get into the argument over whether or not the hobo on my street corner can AFFORD the food (I suppose in the case of American starvation it's more access to food due to finances than actual lack of food) but there is nonetheless an issue of distribution when we are wasting so much food constantly.

Yeah, I wouldn't know the first thing about catching myself dinner. I can't even catch the mouse that lives in my pantry. But that's a separate point from whether or not I have a wasteful quantity of food in said pantry. Cause frankly, outside of the mouse, there isn't much to catch and filet in the evenings here in South Yonkers.

Well, there's hobos, but they are a bit chewy.

[the dreadful hours]

Ingredients:

One animal that isn't:

Beef
Pork
Chicken

Directions:

Slaughter animal in your front lawn in a brutal ritual type fashion and wait for the neighbors to contact cops for violating your right to consume meat.

does porcupine count

[The Lamanite]

I was trying to go a bit deeper than that, like for example the many valuable food sources out there, and we have people starving. Or establishing how we're told what we can eat. But I think you summed it up okay.

1) That's a distribution problem rather than a "what do we eat" problem regarding starving people. We HAVE enough food for 99% of the population (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that), but the distribution of that food to all of the people that need it is the issue. Besides, get hungry enough and there is NO food that is taboo. Cannibalism, eating insects, even your neighboor's cat or dog. Get hungry enough and you WILL eat it, because the survival instinct overrides your pre-existing conditioning. Or you starve.

2) "What we're told we can eat" is merely societal conditioning. One society conditions its members that beef is taboo (the Sacred Cow) but chicken is fine. Another conditions that dog meat or horse meat is acceptable. If you change your conditioning (say, convert to Hinduism) part of reconfiguring your conditioning is to replace one set of arbitrary limits (in this case whatever you currently think is "taboo" to eat) with the arbitrary limits of the societal framework you're accepting (in this case, beef becomes "taboo" and other things that might have been taboo to you will now be socially acceptable).

Ditch the need or desire to follow societal conditions and there are NO taboos that are imposed from outside. Your only limits become the limits you place on yourself, not just with food but with everything.

After further reflection I have to disagree with what you siad under number one:

The problem isn't distribution. The problem is we lost the basic skills it takes to feed ourselves or family. We're dependent on someone else to feed us, regardless of what social factors lead us to this point. This holds true to a third world country as does to microwaving a T.V. dinner.

There are conditions that prevent you from building your own weapons and going out and bagging yourself a meal and then preparing it. Wehter it's your neighbors kid, or a giraffe, doesn't matter someones always there to fuck with you. It boils down to  a loss of knowledge.

What you say is true. But the previous statement is also true--there is a big distribution problem. Just stand outside any restaurant and watch how much food they throw out. I worked in food service for years and it is insane how much we just chuck. One of my coworkers used to steal our leftovers at the end of the night and bring them to homeless shelters in the area, which I thought was great.

But bottom line is that we had tons of leftover muffins and bagels. Over in Africa, not so much. Even for many people in my neighborhood, not so much. We can get into the argument over whether or not the hobo on my street corner can AFFORD the food (I suppose in the case of American starvation it's more access to food due to finances than actual lack of food) but there is nonetheless an issue of distribution when we are wasting so much food constantly.

Yeah, I wouldn't know the first thing about catching myself dinner. I can't even catch the mouse that lives in my pantry. But that's a separate point from whether or not I have a wasteful quantity of food in said pantry. Cause frankly, outside of the mouse, there isn't much to catch and filet in the evenings here in South Yonkers.

Well, there's hobos, but they are a bit chewy.

You have a good point.

And also That One Guy's point about placing Limits on yourself is excellent.

What are people gonna do you climb that fence, kill a cow, and collect your own burgers?

[That One Guy]

After further reflection I have to disagree with what you siad under number one:

The problem isn't distribution. The problem is we lost the basic skills it takes to feed ourselves or family. We're dependent on someone else to feed us, regardless of what social factors lead us to this point. This holds true to a third world country as does to microwaving a T.V. dinner.

With population levels at what they are, though, it's not feasible or sustainable for everyone to do the hunter/gatherer support system anymore. That's a big part of why human society shifted to an agricultural model, which in turn increased food production means and led to increased population and the need for improved agricultural methods (crop rotation, irrigation, etc.) and so on and so on. In certain areas, yes it would be a sustainable lifestyle, but society has adapted itself to make the necessary skills needed for city-folk to survive based around a larger communal system, where a certain facet of the population produces the food (farmers and ranchers), another facet processes it (slaughterhouses, factories, bottling plants, etc.) and another facet distributes it (supermarkets and corner-stores).

If the food exists in a processed form (and it certainly would appear to exist, in light of DC's anecdote) then the fact that there is waste when others go hungry seems to indicate a lack of efficiency in the distribution of that food, rather than a lack of information or knowlege that goes into how that food was produced. The problem lies where the breakdown in the system occurs, and that's distribution.

There are conditions that prevent you from building your own weapons and going out and bagging yourself a meal and then preparing it. Wehter it's your neighbors kid, or a giraffe, doesn't matter someones always there to fuck with you. It boils down to  a loss of knowledge.

What conditions? I could go out right now and buy a gun, some ammo, and a book on how to hunt deer (why bother building a weapon when there are so many around?), and if I really cared, I could get a hunting or fishing license and even be legal about it. Anything that would prevent me from doing any of that legally, I could easily do illegally.

I could make weapons in my bathroom if I wanted to, all from legal, publicly available products. The only thing "fucking with me" and keeping me from doing it is ME, becasue I have no desire to. What do you think is stopping YOU from doing it?

What are people gonna do you climb that fence, kill a cow, and collect your own burgers?

You'll just have to outsmart them, then, so they don't catch you. Either that, or share the spoils. There's ALWAYS a way. You just have to find what it is.

[The Lamanite]

With population levels at what they are, though, it's not feasible or sustainable for everyone to do the hunter/gatherer support system anymore. That's a big part of why human society shifted to an agricultural model, which in turn increased food production means and led to increased population and the need for improved agricultural methods (crop rotation, irrigation, etc.) and so on and so on. In certain areas, yes it would be a sustainable lifestyle, but society has adapted itself to make the necessary skills needed for city-folk to survive based around a larger communal system, where a certain facet of the population produces the food (farmers and ranchers), another facet processes it (slaughterhouses, factories, bottling plants, etc.) and another facet distributes it (supermarkets and corner-stores).

I agree.

But

The reason people shifted to agricultral lifestyle is because they found comfort in ownership and resting on their own square of earth. The current state of society is not sustainable the way it is now. At some point in time, humans became lost in their thought pattern and it had a snowball effect on the world.

That's just my therory on it.

If the food exists in a processed form (and it certainly would appear to exist, in light of DC's anecdote) then the fact that there is waste when others go hungry seems to indicate a lack of efficiency in the distribution of that food, rather than a lack of information or knowlege that goes into how that food was produced. The problem lies where the breakdown in the system occurs, and that's distribution.

The lack of knowledge is the result of paying someone else to prepare the food for us.

I'm sure anyone could go out and kill animal carve it up then char it, but not everyone would be effective at making their own meal.

What conditions? I could go out right now and buy a gun, some ammo, and a book on how to hunt deer (why bother building a weapon when there are so many around?), and if I really cared, I could get a hunting or fishing license and even be legal about it. Anything that would prevent me from doing any of that legally, I could easily do illegally.

When I siad "you" I meant people in general.  Not everyone has your resources.

A condition might be somthing as simple as a hunting liscence, money to buy a gun, or access to a library.

I could tear some branchs off tree but that doesn't mean I have a bow and arrow.

I could make weapons in my bathroom if I wanted to, all from legal, publicly available products. The only thing "fucking with me" and keeping me from doing it is ME, becasue I have no desire to. What do you think is stopping YOU from doing it?

Like I siad before, you made a good point when you siad people put limits on themselves.

I might not have a bow and arrow from these branches, but I got a pretty nifty club.

You'll just have to outsmart them, then, so they don't catch you. Either that, or share the spoils. There's ALWAYS a way. You just have to find what it is.

I shouldn't have to outsmart anyone just to feed my children. This is how civilized people are broken down to savages.

[Payne]

OK Lam, i'm tottally confused by this now, and I'm the master of toolboxery AND fuzzy thinking.

Specifically, what do YOU think is the answer to this "problem" (I'm still not clear what the problem even is...)

Also, yes, it would be good if every man woman and child knew how to go out and prepare a meal for themselves from natural resources. Especially if they didn't have to pay for anything, except payment in the form of taking the time to do it.

However the level of specialisation evident in what we like to call civilisation is what created so many things we have today, teh internets, cell phones, pizza hut and various others.

Are you a primitivist? Should we go out and kill all our own food? Or are you just saying we should know how to, in case something Really Bad ^(TM) happens? As has been mentioned previously, our survival instinct will let us eat anything, if we have to.

Really, my beef with "Civilisation" just now isn't the loss of individual skills, it's the slave labour mentality of sleep, work, eat, TV, sleep. Maybe you'll get a ride once in a while. Not that I don't personally know how to kill cook and eat a rabid yak.

Why shouldn't you "have" to outsmart someone? It's the only real weapon any of us has, or have ever had thorugh human history, and presumably pre-history. At the end of the day, the strongest and fittest survive, and our intellect is what ultimately allows us to recognise this, and use it to our advantage.

And SO, to sum up my POV: Specialisation is GOOD. Killing things for food and profit is FUN, but not NECESSARY. And outsmarting people is the best thing you can do. Evar.

P.S. Most people are stupid, the ones who aren't are usually just kidding themselves.

[Darth Cupcake]

You don't really need to outsmart people to feed your kids. At least, I don't think so. I could be wrong, though.

But on the other hand, with civilization come all kinds of nice things, like low infant mortality rates. So sure, you need money to feed your kids, but you no longer need to have fifteen of them to have two make it to adulthood. It's about trade offs.

My problem is that I like civilization. I like my car and my cellphone and my laputater that lets me post on PD.com and my nice comfy clothes that I didn't have to sew myself (except when feeling crafty)... So I cannot kill and prepare an animal. If placed in a starvation, post-apocalyptic situation, I might surprise myself with what I could do. I've done that a couple times, so I prefer to think of myself as a repository of potential, as opposed to a pile of meat waste (cue Prof Cram to tell us about the robot revolution ).

I concur with Payne. Specialization is good, and our intellect is good. And were it necessary to go into survival mode, these things would allow us to do so. But it's not necessary, and why would we want it to be necessary? We get cool things like jetpacks if we keep specializing!

-DC
Wants to commute to work like Boba Fett

[hunter s.durden]

The knowledge is nice to have though....

[Payne]

The knowledge is nice to have though....

And will be useful come the apocalypse, when we will be fighting evil rabid bears for plague ridden scraps of meat.

[Thurnez Isa]

The reason people shifted to agricultral lifestyle is because they found comfort in ownership and resting on their own square of earth.

its just more convient to feed large populations with growing your own food rather then risking the life and health of your tribes men trying to take down an animal with a spear...
and of course growing your own food is just a more reliable then tracking animals
those reasons probably had more of an effect then "hey this place is comfortable."

[Balls Wellington]

The lack of knowledge is the result of paying someone else to prepare the food for us.

I make a very nice living off of people who either aren't able or can't be bothered to cook their own food.

I shouldn't have to outsmart anyone just to feed my children. This is how civilized people are broken down to savages.

you think people are civilized?



no pretenses here - every motherfucker here would kill and eat anyone else here and their children and pets if that motherfucker was hungry enough. The window dressing makes for nice theater, but don't forget its basic superficiality.

[Iron Sulfide]

DAMMIT

i waited until now to pop back over here?

shit goddam farkin pnis. i missed too muhc fun stuf.

News: Do what thou will shall be the whole of the lail.  Lulz are the lail, lulz under lol.

the last time i was active on the board, it was napadiscordian and davesnothere

top notch, you left me with very little i could possibly add for this one.

'cept mebbe, "You can't have your burger and Eat it too..."

[Suu]

-DC
Wants to commute to work like Boba Fett

http://www.gopotato.tv/player.php?video=GPJ1180462898GP465c6f327270e&etype=3

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Ingredients:

One animal that isn't:

Beef
Pork
Chicken

Directions:

Slaughter animal in your front lawn in a brutal ritual type fashion and wait for the neighbors to contact cops for violating your right to consume meat.

This post is like a big sack full of fail, set out in the sun for days.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

no pretenses here - every motherfucker here would kill and eat anyone else here and their children and pets if that motherfucker was hungry enough.

Why wait?