Author Topic: a history of things that may or may not have happened  (Read 5816 times)

Darth Cupcake

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Re: a history of things that may or may not have happened
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2007, 02:17:07 pm »
i dont know how this generation reconciles questioning the moon landing and 9/11 but has no problem buying into what other 'experts' have to say in other fields

I would definitely agree with this.

That is not to say that I don't agree with evolution, but on the other hand, I don't think the moon landing was some crazy conspiracy.

000 and BMW are right. However, I don't feel that LHX is necessarily talking about people like them, who actually KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THEY ARE SAYING. I think he's speaking more to the people who are like Bible thumpers--they throw around ideologies without thinking them through or really getting a good understanding of what they are doing or saying.

And yeah, that's obnoxious.

Sorry, I just lost my train of thought. I had more to say, so this might seem incomplete or void. That's because I lost it. Sorry.
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Re: a history of things that may or may not have happened
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2007, 02:23:44 pm »
For example:


"A woman's brain is one-third the size of men's.  It's science, you can look it up."
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Re: a history of things that may or may not have happened
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2007, 02:29:30 pm »
I also think he's talking about the other side of the coin, how blindly, and unquestioningly, some people follow the ideas of experts much like a parishoner blindly follows their faith.  I think a good example is Al Gore.  I have no doubt that Al Gore is a learned man who is intelligent.  However, he is NOT a scientist.  He certainly isn't an expert on Global Warming, at least not on the same level as a scientist and researcher.  He's really more of a spokesman for Global Warming.  Which is fine.  However, if people are really interested in the science and knowledge behind Global Warming, they need to stop listening to his yap and read the literature.  Just watching the movie doesn't automatically make them informed.  Of course, many will.  But, there will be many more who will think all of a sudden they are a qualified advocate because they listened to him talk for a few minutes on the Today Show.  
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Re: a history of things that may or may not have happened
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2007, 02:31:14 pm »


Quote
like vex said - who gives a fuck in the first place?

well apparently you do, cause you started a thread about it.

also, i do. and i'm pretty sure BMW does too.

was that really the main point of the original post?

read it again

Quote
'science' clearly isnt putting any of these findings to any practical use that suggests any genuine benefit for the current civilization

what??

really, i take offense to that, i'm a scientist.

i guess i should start taking up theology classes then eh, at least then i'll be of some use to civilisation (!)
way to attribute things to me that i didnt say homie

thats productive


are you offended by what i posted? or are you just looking for a reason to get offended?


Quote
"the search for truth in nature" often seems like another ego quest for peer acclaim

yeah, just like anything else, it's not perfect. i do agree that some scientists do not see this, but the institute of science is not free from cabbageness either.

i'm all for admitting the flaws of the scientific community, but it's still got way more merit than creationism.

man

please re-read the original post

please


Quote
its just denied or well-hidden

please tell me where it is hidden?
motive


Quote
and stating that something is 'partially your profession' really doesnt have much to do with anything

well it does mean that i have some knowledge about how science actually works. it means that when you say "science is XXXX" and i say it's not, i know i'm right because i know what i am doing, what my professors are doing and what the people who wrote those millions of papers have been doing.
it also means that if you go around making uninformed statements about what you perceive to be science and you draw conclusions from that to put it at the same level as creationism, i'm going to feel the need to defend it, because partially and indirectly, you are also making uninformed statements about me.

maybe thats the difference

i dont really know what exactly it is that im doing

and i dont pretend to know either

but
i am willing to mention when something begins to look more and more like bullshit


what i do know is that i am a big supporter of scrutiny and sound reasoning
and nothing you have said really convinces me that my original post lacks foundation
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Darth Cupcake

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Re: a history of things that may or may not have happened
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2007, 02:31:32 pm »
LMNO and RWHN, in two rather different ways, have hit the nail rather squarely on its head.
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Re: a history of things that may or may not have happened
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2007, 02:44:58 pm »
.... in two rather different ways, have hit the nail rather squarely on its head.

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Re: a history of things that may or may not have happened
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2007, 04:38:01 pm »
ok good i think i know where you're coming from

if we take "those evolution folks" to mean the people who almost religiously defend evolution against whatever, and not the scientists who are actually worth their research grant and know wtf they're doing, then yes, in fact i think i already conceeded that point.

but it's the "maybe" that seems like you want to attribute the same amount of validity to creationist theory as to evolution theory that just doesn't fly with me.

i'm all for an alternative theory to evolution if we found one, but it does need to be one that accounts for all the things we found to be right about evolution so far, and then explains some more.

which is what is being done right now anyway, that evolution theory is still being refined as we speak, loosened up a bit here, tightened a bit there, only it's still called "evolution", because although the thing Darwin came up with is definitely surpassed and possibly even wrong (BMW correct me here, but afaik Darwin made some mistakes), but still not entirely different enough to call it something else than "evolution".

are you offended by what i posted? or are you just looking for a reason to get offended?

well i can't help but be a littlebit offended. see i know you mean well, but that also means i take the things you say to some value. usually i don't get all worked up about when somebody says these things, because i'd get very tired if i were to. but i don't want to lay down your words besides me and think "yeah whatever let him talk".

it's just that if you want to put the same amount of validity to creationism as to evolution, that kinda feels a bit like a little slap in the face to me, unless i would think "yeah whatever let him talk".

now possibly you didn't mean that at all, but your first post was stated vague enough to go either way, but was actually having a hard time reading much else into it either.

if you just wanted to say what i said in my second paragraph of this post, you could have also worded it a tad more specific.

so in short:

1) the scientific community has its flaws. there are indeed large forces of ego, peer pressure and not in the least corporate sponsoring, that stand in the way of integrity.

2) there are people that defend some things they heard as being "science" with equal zealotry as the religious fundies, and that's also a bad thing.

now i'm gonna stop here, but if you want to draw conclusions from the above two points, i suggest to draw them carefully :)
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Re: a history of things that may or may not have happened
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2007, 04:45:33 pm »
I think I see an issue here.


"Maybe" seems to be an important word, but I'm not sure it should be used to make two ideas equivalent.

Maybe I'll finish work to day and then build some shelves for my wife.

Maybe I'll leave work early, strip down to my underwear, and go around taking dumps on police cars.


Yes, both are possible, but the likelyhood of one happening over the other is immense.*



It's like Maybe Logic:  Just because nothing is 100% true, doesn't mean everything is equally true.







*(it's the former, for no reason other than I don't have enough copies of the PD to wipe my ass.)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2007, 04:51:09 pm by LMNO »

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: a history of things that may or may not have happened
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2007, 04:50:32 pm »
The way I read the OP, it had nothing to do with the evolution-vs-creation debate.

It had to do with getting your grid so fixed that it becomes more important than the reality you're supposed to be seeing through it.

Saying that "maybe" is a good thing doesn't mean you should accept blatantly false information as possibly accurate.  It means that "blatantly true" is usually an illusion.  Including "maybe" leaves you some room to adjust to new evidence.  Good science is based on "maybe," and rarely gets any more concrete than "probably."
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Re: a history of things that may or may not have happened
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2007, 04:54:32 pm »
well okay in that case (what LMNO said), i guess i don't really have a beef with the OP .. i think. maybe.
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Re: a history of things that may or may not have happened
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2007, 06:28:33 pm »
well okay in that case (what LMNO said), i guess i don't really have a beef with the OP .. i think. maybe.

I think the problem is that the two of us aren't the audience that LHX is writing for.
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Re: a history of things that may or may not have happened
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2007, 06:50:06 pm »
too bad, i usually enjoy being LHXs audience :)
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Re: a history of things that may or may not have happened
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2007, 07:17:00 pm »
anybody who claims to know the history of civilization is talking shit

plain and simple


but some people deliver it as tho their version is actual
with no possibility for error



WHICH

from my perspective - is just as bad as somebody who tries to holler in your ear that a old man with a grey beard built shit in 6 days and then took a nap
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Re: a history of things that may or may not have happened
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2007, 09:33:15 pm »
too bad, i usually enjoy being LHXs audience :)

I ment it in the same way that I wouldn't talk to a bunch of summer tourists gathered by a riverside in the way I would talk to a college professor of entomology, and vice versa.

anybody who claims to know the history of civilization is talking shit

plain and simple


but some people deliver it as tho their version is actual
with no possibility for error



WHICH

from my perspective - is just as bad as somebody who tries to holler in your ear that a old man with a grey beard built shit in 6 days and then took a nap

See? We're not the audience. Once again I made fool of self.
One by one, we break the sheep from their Iron Bar Prisons and expand their imaginations, make them think for themselves. In turn, they break more from their prisons. Eventually, critical mass is reached. Our key word: Resolve. Evangelize with compassion and determination. And realize that there will be few in the beginning. We are hand picking our successors. They are the future of Discordianism. Let us guide our future with intelligence.

     --Reverse Brainwashing: A Guide http://www.principiadiscordia.com/forum/index.php?topic=9801.0


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99.xxxxxxx% forgot they are Buddha.

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Re: a history of things that may or may not have happened
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2007, 09:15:22 am »
Science strikes me as a reality grid.

No different from any other reality grid, in that it only exists in the minds of those who believe in it.

But, as a reality grid, I think it's one of the strongest and most useful.

Science will state that if you do A then B will happen (every fucking time as far as we have observed)

Deity based reality grids will invariably put it down to some divine will or plan or maybe angels

The spawn of deity based grids is, on the upside, social cohesion and a perceived meaning to an existence which can appear frustratingly meaningless at times.

On the downside, deity based grids have the potential to exploit the naturally gullible condition of believers for the purpose of all manner of Jihads and Inquisitions.

The spawn of the scientific grid is, on the upside, technology and the ability to push the limits of what a human being or group of human beings is capable of accomplishing and experiencing.

On the downside, technology can make a real fucking mess at times and put us all in danger of extinction.

I'm a gambler to a degree - I enjoy my existence more if there is a risk of fucking things up completely and dying and stuff. Don't ask me why, I can't explain it but, for this reason and several others, I prefer science.

But it's still nothing more than a reality grid.

It aint anymore real than Jehova.
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