Author Topic: Anatomy of a Meme  (Read 23851 times)

Triple Zero

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Re: Anatomy of a Meme
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2007, 11:11:46 pm »
hm apply to those formulas some relational group/set mathematical thing, i forgot what it's called and you might actually get a working model from that :)

though i suppose it would probably become infeasibly complex really fast :)
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Cain

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Re: Anatomy of a Meme
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2007, 01:11:22 am »
So, is this mental masturbation ever going to climax into something useful, or are you all just going to continue throw cultural jargon at each other to look clever?

Cain,
not seeing anything practical arising from this.
"The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before? Only the Logos allows one to mitigate that slavery. Only knowing the sources of thought and action allows us to own our thoughts and our actions, to throw off the yoke of circumstance."
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Re: Anatomy of a Meme
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2007, 05:04:06 am »
Because the rest of this forum isn't basically an intellectual circle jerk?
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Cain

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Re: Anatomy of a Meme
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2007, 12:39:32 pm »
Well, I tried to make my stuff as practical as possible.  But obviously that doesn't count or something.... :roll:

Look, you have a ton of information here.  Why isn't it being put to use in the Meme-bomb thread?  You know, that one stickied in O:MF which has produced some pretty good shit, it must be said.  Because this knowledge could be used to refine that process, or indeed try and figure out forms of mental defence.

But application of knowledge is pretty passe, it seems...
"The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before? Only the Logos allows one to mitigate that slavery. Only knowing the sources of thought and action allows us to own our thoughts and our actions, to throw off the yoke of circumstance."
- R. Scott Bakker, The Darkness That Comes Before

Triple Zero

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Re: Anatomy of a Meme
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2007, 02:55:25 pm »
Well, I tried to make my stuff as practical as possible.  But obviously that doesn't count or something.... :roll:

while very interesting to read, your stuff isn't quite practical to me.

that's okay, because your modus operandi is different from mine.

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Look, you have a ton of information here.  Why isn't it being put to use in the Meme-bomb thread? 

cause it's all pretty theoretical?

even with all the rules and properties of memes listed in this thread so far, it's a whole different story to just sit down and say "oh i'm gonna make up a meme with these and these properties".

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You know, that one stickied in O:MF which has produced some pretty good shit, it must be said.  Because this knowledge could be used to refine that process, or indeed try and figure out forms of mental defence.

we have a process in the meme bomb thread?

because all i see is people shooting out one-liners, as catchy as possible, some work, some don't.

that's a different process, granted, it's one which brings results quickly, because there's enough people here willing to participate.

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But application of knowledge is pretty passe, it seems...

not passe, but in the future. i'm still looking for the info about memes that make it "click", some thing that can act as a framework to put it all in. some of the earlier posts in this thread came pretty close to that, though.

it's a similar process, actually, but on a different level, shooting out theories, in the hope we find one that works.
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Cain

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Re: Anatomy of a Meme
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2007, 03:22:20 pm »
Practice should follow implicitly from theory.  Otherwise the theory is crap and should be discarded.

So, you know what goes into making a meme.  Now, try and apply that.  Create a meme, get some of the WOMP goons to photoshop it to a picture of something funny and spam /b/ with it for a few days.  See if it catches on.  If it doesn't, try to figure out why not then have another go.  Once you get some working, consider different target groups and attempt different results.  The first should be lulzy/neutral, the latter moving towards creating certain reactions.  Obviously, you cannot measure the response to the latter ones as well, but if it starts appearing without your doing, you are onto something.

You have the world's largest social sciences lab at your fingertips.  I would suggest using it.
"The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before? Only the Logos allows one to mitigate that slavery. Only knowing the sources of thought and action allows us to own our thoughts and our actions, to throw off the yoke of circumstance."
- R. Scott Bakker, The Darkness That Comes Before

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Re: Anatomy of a Meme
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2007, 09:34:35 pm »
Practice should follow implicitly from theory.  Otherwise the theory is crap and should be discarded.

So, you know what goes into making a meme.  Now, try and apply that.  Create a meme, get some of the WOMP goons to photoshop it to a picture of something funny and spam /b/ with it for a few days.  See if it catches on.  If it doesn't, try to figure out why not then have another go.  Once you get some working, consider different target groups and attempt different results.  The first should be lulzy/neutral, the latter moving towards creating certain reactions.  Obviously, you cannot measure the response to the latter ones as well, but if it starts appearing without your doing, you are onto something.

You have the world's largest social sciences lab at your fingertips.  I would suggest using it.

why not just highlight some of the memes that work in the memebomb thread and go from there. have the selection based on the criteria described in this thread.

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Re: Anatomy of a Meme
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2007, 09:42:29 pm »
Because I seriously doubt my connection would hold long enough, let alone stand up to being on a site like /b/ (or gaia etc)
"The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before? Only the Logos allows one to mitigate that slavery. Only knowing the sources of thought and action allows us to own our thoughts and our actions, to throw off the yoke of circumstance."
- R. Scott Bakker, The Darkness That Comes Before

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Re: Anatomy of a Meme
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2007, 06:14:54 pm »
Practice should follow implicitly from theory.  Otherwise the theory is crap and should be discarded.

if it had been up to you, you just discarded the set of complex numbers.

which was purely theoretical mathematical goobledygook when they were "discovered". it was only much later until it was found they have a practical application in electronics engineering, that they became the invaluable tool and addition to mathematics they are now.

there are numerous other examples where theories have been formed, before any practical application was even in sight.

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So, you know what goes into making a meme. 

actually i don't. we were just exploring what goes into making a meme, in this thread.

i could try and have some semi-blind stabs at it, like in the memebomb thread, but i'd rather continue exploring the territory a bit further, myself.

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Now, try and apply that.  Create a meme, get some of the WOMP goons to photoshop it to a picture of something funny and spam /b/ with it for a few days.  See if it catches on.  If it doesn't, try to figure out why not then have another go.  Once you get some working, consider different target groups and attempt different results.  The first should be lulzy/neutral, the latter moving towards creating certain reactions.  Obviously, you cannot measure the response to the latter ones as well, but if it starts appearing without your doing, you are onto something.

You have the world's largest social sciences lab at your fingertips.  I would suggest using it.

i like this idea.
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Cain

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Re: Anatomy of a Meme
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2007, 06:51:12 pm »
1. However, their existence presupposed a practical application.  Sometimes technology has to catch up with the theory, however, then the theory is STILL explaining the mechanisms once they are in place.  Therefore, the theory goes to the practical.  If a theory has no application to the practical, then it is useless.

2.  Then continue.

3.  Then do it.
"The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before? Only the Logos allows one to mitigate that slavery. Only knowing the sources of thought and action allows us to own our thoughts and our actions, to throw off the yoke of circumstance."
- R. Scott Bakker, The Darkness That Comes Before

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Re: Anatomy of a Meme
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2007, 07:02:58 pm »
1. However, their existence presupposed a practical application.  Sometimes technology has to catch up with the theory, however, then the theory is STILL explaining the mechanisms once they are in place. 

no the theory was just developed for theory's sake.

they found a certain pattern in mathematics that suggested taking the square root of minus one wouldn't be a completely absurd idea, then developed a bunch of rules around it to accomodate for it, then found that even though they were now working with self-admitted "imaginary numbers", on the whole it fitted rather well with the rest of mathematics and seemed to complete it in a certain way, so they kept it.

practical application came only much later.

(note: i'm not a mathematics history expert, this is what i heard was the general story)

there are currently still a lot of mathematical proofs, theorems and other constructions that have no practical application whatsoever, just seemed "nice" or "interesting" to find a proof for or to explore. from time to time, some of these theorems are plucked out of their dusty cabinets and come in useful for research that actually has practical application.
maybe some others never will see any practical use. but the point is, you can't tell beforehand.

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2.  Then continue.

we were, until you started heckling.
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Cain

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Re: Anatomy of a Meme
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2007, 07:27:25 pm »
They are built on the back of theories that have practical use, are they not?

And you may have been, but there seemed to be several people who wanted to race to the top of Mount Cleverest rather than bring in any real information.
"The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before? Only the Logos allows one to mitigate that slavery. Only knowing the sources of thought and action allows us to own our thoughts and our actions, to throw off the yoke of circumstance."
- R. Scott Bakker, The Darkness That Comes Before

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Re: Anatomy of a Meme
« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2007, 05:18:58 pm »
Practical use?

I make use of these ideas all the time. I'm currently studying the concepts surrounding memes and memetic entities, in an effort to create memes and memetic entities for my own use. Some of them might be interesting to post here, some may not. However, I would not, in any situation suppose that something discussed in a Discordian forum would have practical application. For me, the applications are multifaceted, I use this forum to throw out and read about ideas/concepts related to memes. The ideas are then used in experiements to see if they work in creating memes or not. However, I can't say that any of its practical.

In fact, other than the 40 hours I spend each week at the office, I don't particularly care about what's considered practical. If anyone here considers anything on this site as more than idle chat, discordant ramblings and Chaotic circle jerks, then I think they may be smoking something a bit stronger than the stuff I usually do.

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Re: Anatomy of a Meme
« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2007, 05:50:22 pm »
Cain, do you have anything "practical" to contribute? Or are you just here to tell others that they're doing it wrong?

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Re: Anatomy of a Meme
« Reply #44 on: August 11, 2007, 06:19:16 pm »
do any of you practice/use/experiment with these memebombs, other ideas we've had here IRL- to people you know, work with, encounter at the coffee shoppe (whatever)?

because that's wher i'm getting my practical information from. which is why i haven't substantive amounts to post yet.

yet. this is a small town. lots of responses are the same: brickwall.

i'm accumuilating good subjects,. though. trying to get a good cross sectin of people that i can sling my 'ideas' at, and then be able to follow the timespan afterwards to see if it keeps popping up.

as i said, i don't have much in it that's substantive, but it's getting interesting.

we shold also look into Advertising Digest (not a real name): the marketing industry, really, has already laid down a lot of the tracks we need. initially, at least. what would it be to develop a system more effective than marketing?

and then use it to convince people to think?
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