Author Topic: When does a human cease to be a human?  (Read 11444 times)

Jasper

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When does a human cease to be a human?
« on: February 02, 2008, 11:57:27 pm »
That is in terms of surgery, medication, prosthesis, mutation, what have you.

I have my own ideas.  I think you stop being a human when you no longer need other people for any reason.  Everything else still seems human to me.  Even without anything recognizably human, if it still wants interaction with people on a social level like we all do, it still counts as fully human to me.

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Re: When does a human cease to be a human?
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2008, 12:28:32 am »
Cats and dogs want interaction with humans and should be considered human.  OTH, Tasha Maltby sets up a good example without any surgery by simply declaring that she is a pet.  Remember, we don't allow dogs on the bus.

I feel you stop being human when you can kill and injure humans or use humans as food or tools as you have stepped down to the level of beasts.  On the other hand, it seems perfectly natural to a wide variety of homo sapiens to injure/kill others of their species, even if the injury is not physical (i.e. economic, legal, etc.).

Emotions are as vital as breath. Without emotions, without feelings, without love, without hate, breath is just a clock ticking.  Once one is unable to feel, one is unable to know why not to damage or destroy another creature.  Once that is possible, nothing is sacred and no holds are barred.  Emotions themselves being primal may not fully make one human, but they're a necessary safeguard against logic.

Logic, which is what we're supposed be champs at, is what says that one can go push someone and fake a fall to charge that person with a crime if they turn around. Emotions are what keeps their mark screaming for life in the torments of logical, inflexible law and motivate their mark to vow to destroy the next entity that pulls the same stunt for such entities are no longer human but calculating, cold-blooded machines aiming to inflict suffering.  Sure, in the moment of raw, animalistic, self-protecting rage, one could argue that neither is human, but I would say that the one who is protecting themselves using any reasonable force against an almost mechanical prodding by a subhuman fleshbot bent on using an inflexible legal system is the most human.  Emotion is what brings forth a primal scream to disable the fleshbot without a single blow.

Of course, I believe you could argue that because humans are beasts, you cannot become not human.

In all my years of interest in body modification and cyber culture, they still look mostly human or like humans wearing art.  So, surgery and prosthesis are out.  Prozium is in.
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Jasper

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Re: When does a human cease to be a human?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2008, 01:34:18 am »
Cool.

So provided that an intelligence retains it's emotive faculties and empathic imperatives, it remains human. 

And I'll believe dogs are human in their way, but cats don't need humans at all.  They still happily hunt for food and sleep away from humans for any length of time.   They don't even need each other as a social creature does.  They I do not count as human.

Quote
Of course, I believe you could argue that because humans are beasts, you cannot become not human.

You could argue it, but there's an effective counterargument in saying that what makes a humane creature "human" is it's attraction to others like it.  A human who's lost their taste for humanity is an intelligent beast.

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Re: When does a human cease to be a human?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2008, 01:57:03 am »
Cool.

So provided that an intelligence retains it's emotive faculties and empathic imperatives, it remains human. 

And I'll believe dogs are human in their way, but cats don't need humans at all.  They still happily hunt for food and sleep away from humans for any length of time.   They don't even need each other as a social creature does.  They I do not count as human.

Quote
Of course, I believe you could argue that because humans are beasts, you cannot become not human.

You could argue it, but there's an effective counterargument in saying that what makes a humane creature "human" is it's attraction to others like it.  A human who's lost their taste for humanity is an intelligent beast.

So, what makes an ant an ant is that it likes being with other ants in a colony?

What if there's nothing more than intelligent beasts?  What if no one is human to begin with?

Was the Unabomber and similarly many loners not human?
Mary: Let me ask you something.
[Grabs his hand]
Mary: Why are you alive?
John Preston: [Breaks free] I'm alive... I live... to safeguard the continuity of this great society. To serve Libria.
Mary: It's circular. You exist to continue your existence. What's the point?
John Preston: What's the point of your existence?
Mary: To feel. 'Cause you've never done it, you can never know it. But it's as vital as breath. And without it, without love, without anger, without sorrow, breath is just a clock... ticking.

Jasper

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Re: When does a human cease to be a human?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2008, 02:42:50 am »
The unibomber was on someone's payroll.  You can get used to anything when money's involved.

Ants are not human, however they possess a social trait uncorrupted by intellect.

And how can you proclaim humans aren't human?  We are not our ideals, we are wildly flawed and fault-prone, out of necessity we have to be for without learning there is no development.  We're designed to combine genetics and experience to make a being that is more effective than any beast. 

As for loners, they all are broken characters who have not the mental/emotional capacity to take their place as contributing adults.  In human society there are children, adults, and loners.  That's just how we are.

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Re: When does a human cease to be a human?
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2008, 02:48:47 am »
Some could argue we, with all the chemicals put into our diets and environments, aren't really entirely human anymore, considering we've already modified ourselves to the point where we're not much like our early ancestors. IMO, the concept of "human" is pretty fluid, considering some can define it biologically, some socially, some emotionally, and etc. As far as I'm concerned, if you look and act close enough to the "human" archetype in my mind to make me recognize you as human, then you are. It's just a matter of perception.
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Re: When does a human cease to be a human?
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2008, 04:13:29 am »
I think that a human is a human, whether they like it or not.

...

But in all seriousness, the question of what separates humanity from everything else is extremely tricky. I really don't think we'll ever know.
Some say that the presence of a soul, or some defining characteristic/behavior does it.

Others say that we're just a glob of vibrating atoms, forming systems complex enough to get up one day and ask itself "What am I? Why am I just a glob of vibrating atoms?".

It's really quite  disconcerting.
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Re: When does a human cease to be a human?
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2008, 06:23:50 am »
Isn't it?

Were it so easy to deduce the whole truth from what we know.

You have to take reality as a whole, or not at all if you're to get at the truth.

We seem to be phantoms of matter, from a physics POV.  We seem to be a self-regulating system of neuroses from a Freudian psych POV.  The list goes on, without any real correlation.  We are what we are, and we won't get anywhere without acknowleging the fact of it. 

You people.  You go about your lives thinking you're all the pivot of some massive force of unknown elements.  You all act like your decisions matter more than they do.  Everything is a part of the same system of interactions.  There's no way that everything can happen without it all acting in unison.  And there's definite patterns to it, but nobody ever cares to look.  There's talk of self-illumination, without ever acknowledging the whole system.  The System is what ties it all together.  You can't have any kind of reaction without other agents, and the entire neo-spiritual metaphysics movement ignores the 3rd person to the extent that everything it says is useless.  There's an action to effect any change; We just haven't divined it.  And since the scientific method is a perfect analogue to a brute force de-encryption hack, it'll take so long to figure anything out that we'll be extinct by the time we know anything of true significance at all.

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Re: When does a human cease to be a human?
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2008, 06:51:22 am »
What's the difference between a horse and a badger?
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


Jasper

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Re: When does a human cease to be a human?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2008, 06:56:57 am »
User friendliness.

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Re: When does a human cease to be a human?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2008, 06:59:05 am »
ACTUAL TRUE FACT.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


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Re: When does a human cease to be a human?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2008, 07:01:21 am »
I'm currently a wino, ask me anything.

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Re: When does a human cease to be a human?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2008, 07:16:15 am »
I am currently really tired, and will be going to bed, so I am missing my window of opportunity.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


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Re: When does a human cease to be a human?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2008, 07:37:30 am »
HAHAHAHA, glub glub

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Re: When does a human cease to be a human?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2008, 10:36:43 pm »
so, i was wondering, when is a house two houses and when is it one?

sometimes you have two houses sharing the same roof, but they are different houses right?

so does it depend on having a different front door?

but i also know houses that share a front door, and have a hallway/corridor inside (or stairs), but they don't even share the same roof sometimes, but i would also consider those to be two different houses.

so does it depend on the people living there? having a different address?

when is a house two houses and when is it one?
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