Author Topic: Forgive me for going grey...  (Read 7361 times)

Bu☆ns

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Forgive me for going grey...
« on: February 22, 2008, 08:30:32 am »
...but sometimes i dig a sense of order. that isn't to say that i don't apprecaite the emphasis of discord as a corrective measure to the curse of Greyface but i think that at times it's also important to pull back sometimes and look at the harmonious interplay between order and disorder. for me this is one of those times. 

according that ancient piece of literature we all ad(bh)ore:
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Look at all the order around you," [Greyface] said. And from that, he deluded honest men to believe that reality was a straightjacket affair and not the happy romance as men had known it....It is not presently understood why men were so gullible at that particular time, for absolutely no one thought to observe all the disorder around them and conclude just the opposite.

what makes discordianism really work for me is that on a practical level it tends to balance things out (as with the sacred chao, as an example). the game rules of life for that "malcontented hunchbrain" was that life is order. as a corrective, our game rules often say life is disorder (why not?).  but stepping out of the game it's obviously it's both (and neither). what gets me is how it's easier to see that from the discord perspective rather than the order perspective. in fact it kills me.

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Doing everything exactly opposite from "The Mainstream" is the same thing as doing everything exactly like "The Mainstream."  You're still using What Everyone Else is Doing as your primary point of reference.
whoever said that...it's wonderful.  i'm going rape it a little bit to suit this post, however :boot:

Doing everything exactly opposite from "Order" is the same thing as doing everything exactly like "Order."  You're still using The Curse of Greyface as your primary point of reference. We discordians NEED ol' Graud for our point of refrence.  Afterall, what are revolutionaries to do when the revolution is over?

what is important to me, (at least tonight as i pretend to be a discordian) i feel is to step back and look at the whole picture.  order and disorder go together like back and front.  inside and outside. warp and woof, tweedledee and tweedledum, subject and object, organism and environment etc and etc... 
i know me in terms of all of you; and everybody. 

and that blows my mind.

and that makes me smile.  :D

LMNO

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Re: Forgive me for going grey...
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2008, 12:30:22 pm »
I have nothing against Order.  I use Order every day.  Order is what helps me function in this business we call "life".  If it weren't for the power of my brain to make patterns out of things, I'd be huddled in a corner all day, drooling.

But to think that my Ordering is "real", or somehow "better" than the immense amount of Disorder out there is a delusion.

Conversley (the ability to Order allows me to say "conversley", btw), to believe that Disorder is inherently better than Order is to once again be deluded; but this time, in the opposite direction.

Which is to say: I agree with you, Burns.

[edited to add]

And incidentally, desiring a bit of Order in your life isn't "going Grey" in my book.  Emerson didn't say "consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds," he said "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."  One of the points, I feel, of discord is to understand that humans are inherently order-seeking, and to understand that fallacy and use it as a tool to navigate the waters of chaos. 

It's only when you start believeing that Order is the Only Way of Things do you start going Grey.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2008, 12:35:07 pm by LMNO »

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Re: Forgive me for going grey...
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2008, 01:17:03 pm »
That's what I believe the Chao is all about, realizing that Order and Disorder are both natural, and are both manifestations of Chaos.  I myself am generally very orderly, but I also have strong streaks of kookiness to balance it out.

Discordians who only focus on the Disorder are missing out on a lot, IMO.  Also, let us not forget that Eris is also the goddess of bureaucracy.

I tried to address the issues you bring up in my "Legend of Zaurn the Grey" by pointing out that a lot of so-called 'greyfaceism' is what makes us fantastic.
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." -Bob Dylan?

"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman

Cain

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Re: Forgive me for going grey...
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2008, 01:18:48 pm »
Order is stupid and boring.

I'm balancing out the opposition, so STFU.

Reeducation

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Re: Forgive me for going grey...
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2008, 01:40:42 pm »
Yeah.  :lulz:
I am very calm

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Re: Forgive me for going grey...
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2008, 02:24:52 pm »
As a parent I understand all too well the need for Order.  It is vitally important for kids to be able to enjoy their happy anarchy of childhood.  Their fantasy worlds of play, and just being random with every day life.  It's part of how they learn about what their mind and body can do.  Order, then is necessary to teach them what they cannot do.  Specifically, that which will cause them harm. 

Jumping off of the couch and pretending to be Superman is great fun, and generally is relatively harmless.  However, trying that same stunt from the roof of the house is obvisously going to end in tragedy.  I have to employ Order in order to protect my daughter from harm from others and from herself. 

It's certainly a constant balancing act.  There are often times I find myself trying to be too Orderly and need to pull back.  Just as their are times I realize I'm giving her a little too much rope.  And I know it will be neverending so long as she is under my roof. 
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Jasper

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Re: Forgive me for going grey...
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2008, 03:51:20 pm »
Who could ever invent anything new without order?

Cain

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Re: Forgive me for going grey...
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2008, 03:58:35 pm »
Incidentally, I'm not joking.  If you all = a belief in a balance between order and disorder and yet society = order order order then you are contributing to an overabdundance of order within your larger communities because the overall role of disorder is diminished.  Instead, if you were to have 2 extremes, then they would balance each other out, interpersonally.

Its very selfish, placing your own individual lives above those of everyone around you for your personal beliefs.

LMNO

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Re: Forgive me for going grey...
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2008, 04:06:21 pm »
But if you look at society, it's clearly not orderorderorder.

Cain

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Re: Forgive me for going grey...
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2008, 04:08:34 pm »
But if you look at society, it's clearly not orderorderorder.

Its far more order than disorder, if by perception more than fact.  By refusing to personally balance out that order with roughly equal support of disorder, are you not in fact only supporting the priveliged position that order has over disorder?

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Re: Forgive me for going grey...
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2008, 04:08:55 pm »
Fuck that. It's ORDER ORDER ORDER, baby. "They" should do their best to impose as much order as possible. They can do their best to make this world sterile and predictable and rational and gray. Then, at night, our kind comes out.

In a world of pin stripes and prison bars, revolution is the stuff of legend.


BAN gay marriage and abortion. Crucify those who try.
Anybody who drives the slightest bit faster than the speed limit should be thrown in JAIL.
You pay for stuff, then pay to get rid of it.
You get busted with an ounce of weed? That's 30 years hard labor, buddy.
You go to school to learn how to take standardized tests. That's all.
They're gonna put a listening device in your wallet.
They're gonna put a black iron prison bar right up your ass and just slowly heat it up until you can't take it anymore



eventually there's an epic breaking point.

Cain

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Re: Forgive me for going grey...
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2008, 04:11:30 pm »
Fuck that. It's ORDER ORDER ORDER, baby. "They" should do their best to impose as much order as possible. They can do their best to make this world sterile and predictable and rational and gray. Then, at night, our kind comes out.

In a world of pin stripes and prison bars, revolution is the stuff of legend.


BAN gay marriage and abortion. Crucify those who try.
Anybody who drives the slightest bit faster than the speed limit should be thrown in JAIL.
You pay for stuff, then pay to get rid of it.
You get busted with an ounce of weed? That's 30 years hard labor, buddy.
You go to school to learn how to take standardized tests. That's all.
They're gonna put a listening device in your wallet.
They're gonna put a black iron prison bar right up your ass and just slowly heat it up until you can't take it anymore



eventually there's an epic breaking point.


BUT THATS NOT BALANCED!

 :lulz:

Cramulus

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Re: Forgive me for going grey...
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2008, 04:13:43 pm »
all I'm saying is
VOTE RICHARD NIXON IN 08

Hoopla

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Re: Forgive me for going grey...
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2008, 04:13:57 pm »
Incidentally, I'm not joking.  If you all = a belief in a balance between order and disorder and yet society = order order order then you are contributing to an overabdundance of order within your larger communities because the overall role of disorder is diminished.  Instead, if you were to have 2 extremes, then they would balance each other out, interpersonally.

Its very selfish, placing your own individual lives above those of everyone around you for your personal beliefs.

If you only ever embrace disorder you will never get anything accomplished, and you know it very well.  

Yes, disorder should be emphasized as a Discordian, because Order is pushed so much, but my first line stands.
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." -Bob Dylan?

"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman

Cain

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Re: Forgive me for going grey...
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2008, 04:15:57 pm »
Why do equate focussing on, supporting and instigating disorder with acting or thinking in a discordant manner?  It doesn't automatically follow, your analogy is false.