Author Topic: STRIFE or CHAOS?????  (Read 9522 times)

Requia ☣

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 53479
  • Delicate and pretty shark of impending doom.
    • View Profile
Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2008, 08:43:20 pm »
You have to remember that Hesiod was also a mysognist who hated the idea of powerful women in any way whatsoever.

Not to mention his sources were the bloody Muses of all people.  Servants of Apollo, the god Nietzsche typified with order, harmony and rationality.

Erm, did you read the second half about the positive aspects of Eris?  It's got kindof the same point as the PD division between creative and destructive strife/chaos.  (Though he barely touches the surface of the positive aspects).

Edit: He also only mentions the aspects that are parts of The Machine  :argh!:  Was just trying to point out that the greeks didn't see Eris as 100% bad though.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 08:44:52 pm by Requiem »
Inflatable dolls are not recognized flotation devices.

Dido

  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 2934
    • View Profile
Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2008, 08:58:44 pm »
Yeah, that ties into the idea that Achilles' death was arranged by Zeus.

no.

Chairman Risus

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 18401
    • View Profile
Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2008, 09:55:06 pm »
Yeah, that ties into the idea that Achilles' death was arranged by Zeus.

no.

You're going to have to elaborate on that.

Cain

  • Alea iacta est
  • Chekha
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 104977
    • View Profile
Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2008, 12:59:54 am »
Yeah, that ties into the idea that Achilles' death was arranged by Zeus.

no.

You're going to have to elaborate on that.

But making one-worded comments to the effect that I am wrong is sooooo much easier.  Never mind the Cypria states, bold as brass, that Zeus, and I quote "planned with Themis to bring about the Trojan war" , that Achilles was prophesized to be even greater than his father (which almost was Zeus) and that he he was essentially half-Titan.  Zeus was hardly the underhand or devious sort at all, and since he himself had overthrown the previous gods, there was nothing to worry about, right?  Any assertions to the contrary simply exist in the fevered minds of such untutored individuals as professors of Classical Studies at the St Andrews Classics and Literature department and so carry virtually no weight at all.

Dido

  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 2934
    • View Profile
Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2008, 07:21:33 pm »
It isn't just easier. It also causes whoever advocates another opinion to state their arguments in detail which saves you (well, me) a lot of guessing as to their nature, the research necessary to confirm or refute them and the effort of typing. That is, it would have if some people did not think that name dropping equals argument.
Anyway. I do not question the authority of people whose work I do not know but I really do not see what the part from the Cypria is supposed to prove in that context. But I should say that I do not doubt that Achilles was indeed meant to die as soon as possible. Relating my one- word-comment to the quote preceding it should have clarified that I was not objecting  to the theory that Zeus was scheming to get rid of his almost-offspring  but to the opinion that the bit about Prometheus was supporting said theory.


« Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 08:00:03 pm by Dido »

Dido

  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 2934
    • View Profile
Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #50 on: March 16, 2008, 09:42:01 pm »
The portrayals of Zeus change over time. In later stories and texts by later authors he is indeed shown as capable of long-term planning but especially when dealing with Titans he lacks intelligence as well as instincts. Prometheus for example tricks him into choosing the bones and not the meat of a sacrificed animal as the part the gods are entitled to by hiding the meat in the animal's hide (or stomach, depending on the source) and covering the bones with the glistening fat.
Prometheus is a Titan and less mighty than the Olympian but cunning and able to foretell the future accurately. In a story where both are present he is more likely the one who does the planning.
Postscriptum: The story with the sacrifice is from Hesiod. He contrives to portray Zeus favorably, but whoever Hesiod really was, he was certainly a believer. And of course I simply prefer the tricksters.


« Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 11:53:38 pm by Dido »

Hoopla

  • gives people the beeps
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 29918
    • View Profile
Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2008, 01:44:10 am »
The portrayals of Zeus change over time. In later stories and texts by later authors he is indeed shown as capable of long-term planning but especially when dealing with Titans he lacks intelligence as well as instincts. Prometheus for example tricks him into choosing the bones and not the meat of a sacrificed animal as the part the gods are entitled to by hiding the meat in the animal's hide (or stomach, depending on the source) and covering the bones with the glistening fat.
Prometheus is a Titan and less mighty than the Olympian but cunning and able to foretell the future accurately. In a story where both are present he is more likely the one who does the planning.
Postscriptum: The story with the sacrifice is from Hesiod. He contrives to portray Zeus favorably, but whoever Hesiod really was, he was certainly a believer. And of course I simply prefer the tricksters.

no
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." -Bob Dylan?

"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman

Dido

  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 2934
    • View Profile
Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2008, 01:56:53 pm »
 All of it?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 02:04:03 pm by Dido »

LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoom™
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87066
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2008, 02:11:35 pm »
Yes.

Golden Applesauce

  • Token Apologist
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 22325
  • Where does this text go?
    • View Profile
Re: STRIFE or CHAOS?????
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2008, 08:37:01 pm »
Q: How regularly do you hire 8th graders?
A: We have hired a number of FORMER 8th graders.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

  • v=1/3πr2h
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 687093
  • The sky tastes like red exuberance.
    • View Profile
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”




Hoopla

  • gives people the beeps
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 29918
    • View Profile
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 02:41:20 am by Hoopla »
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." -Bob Dylan?

"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman

LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoom™
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87066
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.