Author Topic: Concerning Illuminatus Material  (Read 5451 times)

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: Concerning Illuminatus Material
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2008, 11:18:18 am »
I kind of think that the only truth in this thread is that each illumination is only applicable to one person. Ever.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Concerning Illuminatus Material
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2008, 11:25:35 am »
Please elaborate.
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Re: Concerning Illuminatus Material
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2008, 12:44:37 pm »
Concerning the OP, and Discordian memes used by Pinealists:

I've seen quite a few of us so-called "non-Pinealists" use the Law of Fives, Pentabarf, Eristic/Aneristic Illusion, etc quite a lot.

What I think the difference might be is that we often use the terms as a shorthand for what the terms stand for while discussing other things.  The pinealists tend to se the meme as being important in and of itself:

That is to say, a Pinealist might spend his time looking for the hidden 5s in any given text, but a NP will use "Law of Fives" as part of a discussion of Astrology.

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Re: Concerning Illuminatus Material
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2008, 02:25:20 pm »
I am of the opinion that RAW brought the Illuminati to the table in the entire situation.  He and Shea encountered the concept on a regular basis on the Playboy letter section... I believe it says this in the Mord the Foul intro to the Robert Anton Wilson Reader.  And, I can name at least 4 parts of the PD that I think there is some evidence to lean toward RAW writing them.

Well, either RAW was getting the Illuminati mailings from Omar and Mal-2 directly, or they were sending in such things to Playboy... I've never quite figured that part out. And Bob loved nothing more than answering 80% of the questions and then saying "Oh, that's an Illuminati secret which I can't talk about", and then he would always laugh and change the subject. Bastard.

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Re: Concerning Illuminatus Material
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2008, 02:47:53 pm »
What makes you think they were coming from Mal2 or Omar?  I see little evidence of their interest in the Illuminati... check out the 1st Edition of the PD, I don't think there is a single reference in there.

I think the Illuminati letters Playboy was getting were from Birchers, and the like, and RAW and Shea found all the different contradictory theories amusing.

I could be wrong, however.
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." -Bob Dylan?

"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Concerning Illuminatus Material
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2008, 03:39:16 pm »
What makes you think they were coming from Mal2 or Omar?  I see little evidence of their interest in the Illuminati... check out the 1st Edition of the PD, I don't think there is a single reference in there.

I think the Illuminati letters Playboy was getting were from Birchers, and the like, and RAW and Shea found all the different contradictory theories amusing.

I could be wrong, however.

That's based on a conversation with Bob, where he talked about some short series of jake letters done in the late 60's apparently by the Discordians as a joke. In it, there was talk of the Discordians fighting the Evil Illuminati (where the Illuminati were sort of metaphors for Grayfaced Hunchbrains). So it appears (based on what he said, which could be truth, lie or ... Bob) that he was getting two different streams of information, the Playboy letters wherein serious Illuminati Conspiracy theorists were involved and Discordians who (by coincidance) were using the same meme. Bob had already been investigating the ideas of the Illuminati, which was one of the things that led him to Crowley, which led to the Book of Lies, which led to Bob figuring out "The Final Secret of the Freemasons and the Illuminati" (which Crowley claims was in Book of Lies). That led to the experiments Bob did to himself, documented in Cosmic Trigger. All of that, then contributed to the style of TIT and a lot of the philosophy hidden in the text.

When RAW the Skeptic was around, the Illuminati was a joke. But, when some of the other RAW's were around, he admitted that the series of 'coincidences' were, possibly, far more than coincidence. Be it because of a real Illuminati, real Illumination(ie, the secret being perception modification/changing reality tunnels/bending bars in the BiP) or he once theorized that maybe, just maybe, Crowley or someone like Crowley (Weishaupt?), built a great big puzzle with pieces all over the place and he just happened to put it together.

I think the development of the PD was either intentionally obfuscated by its original authors (we know the bastards spread lies about who wrote it) and further obfuscated by RAW, or that it may provide a good example of synchronicity (or both?).

Quote
That is to say, a Pinealist might spend his time looking for the hidden 5s in any given text, but a NP will use "Law of Fives" as part of a discussion of Astrology.

I think this may be a useful way of looking at it. Though, I would argue that mosbunal people that play with Discordia, eventually get past the "LAW OF FIVES IS TRUE" stage... at least, if they read anything besides just the PD and TIT. Though if anyone reads TIT and doesn't come away with "Think For Yourself, Schmuck!" as the primary lesson... then I feel truly sorry for them and their inability to process data.

Besides, I am not sure how RAW and Shea could have made the "Discordians" any less definable (not putting spoilers in here due to Nigel still reading the book).
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Re: Concerning Illuminatus Material
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2008, 03:45:26 pm »
By the way, the "Final Secret" in the Book of Lies was prolonged oral sex, right?

Or was it felching?

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Re: Concerning Illuminatus Material
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2008, 03:51:58 pm »
It was Crowley's middle name
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Re: Concerning Illuminatus Material
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2008, 03:52:22 pm »
In the Crowley 101 course on MLA, RAW indicated it was Chapter 69, the "Gift of Tongues", so yeah, basically.

But others have had different opinions . . . what was the one about The Ruby?  I seem to recall reading that as a guess by some people . . . or was it Sapphire?  I forget.
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

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Re: Concerning Illuminatus Material
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2008, 03:53:33 pm »
srsly - middle name.

It was "Shirley"  :lulz:
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Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Concerning Illuminatus Material
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2008, 03:54:00 pm »
By the way, the "Final Secret" in the Book of Lies was prolonged oral sex, right?

Or was it felching?

The Final Secret is a secret. Tantric Sex is involved.

Let's say that the Final Secret of the Illuminati, as interpreted by RAW, from Crowley's Book of Lies, (as interpreted by me) appears to be a step by step guide on how to break out of the Black Iron Prison.

I fact, I think its because I interpreted it this way, that I tend to disagree with the "You can't break out" part of the metaphor.


However, lots of introspection still to come ;-)

In the Crowley 101 course on MLA, RAW indicated it was Chapter 69, the "Gift of Tongues", so yeah, basically.

But others have had different opinions . . . what was the one about The Ruby?  I seem to recall reading that as a guess by some people . . . or was it Sapphire?  I forget.

True... in some sense ;-)
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

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Re: Concerning Illuminatus Material
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2008, 05:14:03 pm »
Also, if my posts, in any way, sounded as though I felt I was superior or something, please accept my apologies. I was intending only to add more information, not place myself above anyone else.  :sad:

For all I know the old man could have been lying through his teeth, just to fuck with me.  :gheyforum:

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Re: Concerning Illuminatus Material
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2008, 05:19:19 pm »
I'd be dissapointed if he wasn't giving you some of the Sacred Bull.
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." -Bob Dylan?

"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman

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Re: Concerning Illuminatus Material
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2008, 05:28:29 pm »
I'd be dissapointed if he wasn't giving you some of the Sacred Bull.

 :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

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Re: Concerning Illuminatus Material
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2008, 06:40:57 pm »
RAW tended to know a fair bit about almost everything, and keep it all straight in his head (I have a hard time remembering what I ate yesterday and then if it was lunch or dinner myself) however he was also quite known for a fair amount of bullshit, I bet if someone called him out on it, he would smile and say "Thats what YOU know!"  When dealing with the 'Occult' (the hidden) there are rarely any 'correct' answers about anything.  So you can kind of make shit up as you go along.  The more you do it in a consistent manner the more people quote you on it.  After enough time, what is truth and what is false is dependant on what was recorded, and 'weight' is given to people who are consistently quoted.  RAW and the Illuminantus Trilogy have put their mark on things, but also skewed things in a similar but different direction.  Not to say others haven't done the same throughout the years, and in part we all are kind of required to do so at some point or so I would believe, no?   

The BIP while not the PD, is a reinterpretation for the modern culture of Discordianism, and a nice piece of work.  Heavily influenced by Dicks Exegesis and Valis (after reading BIP I spent a week trudging through Valis once again, a better work than Illuminantus, if albeit crazy) and its definately a more pro-active almost radical stance to the former PD.  Something which is kind of important every now and then, perhaps a form of rising of the house of podge (or would that be hodge, it would be all in the interpretation I would think).  Its really kind of the new skew on things, and the modern variant for people to align themselves with (or against).

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