Discordianism to Me

[Cain]

Nice work guys.

I'll set up a new thread for this in Think for Yourself, if thats OK?  I left Trickster Makes World back at my flat, so I have to rely on my memory for now, but I'll outline some ideas in the new thread.  Sound good?

[e]

Javol, mon capitan

[M.K]

Discordianism to me: a chaotic, to say the least, ideology/philosophy that always suits one's own needs if he wishes so. I'm especially interested in the concept of the Black Iron Prison and getting out of it.

I've actually started gradually feeling better once I "found" Discordianism. I'm also glad to say that to this day I've got nothing "spiritual" out of Discordianism, only a good warm feeling of some perverted control of myself and a few good conversations with a friend of mine (which is more than other religions/pseudoreligions offer).

And now, maybe not strictly in the topic: the way I see it, GASM is some kind of meme-using discordian troll/prank/propaganda "terrorism" project to get sheep out of their BIP:s. Feel free to discuss.

[Lies]

I like this OP and want to make sweet, sweet love to his sister.

[Reverend Loveshade]

I don't think Thornley and Hill were really harkening back to the other enlightenment religions, that's not to say that they don't share a lot in common, but there's a kind of repeating motif in philosophy religion.

More likely, if they were deriving from anything, it was existentialism.

Thornley also poked fun at es background in Mormonism, but I think a bit of real Mormon philosophy crept in (the idea of creating/becoming your own god/dess and proclaiming yourself pope/saint, for example).

(To be fair, this post comes from a discussion about this topic I had with my friend Alden)

The Discordian philosophy of there being objective Reality, which we interpret through our personal-cultural grid as our subjective reality, quite possibly comes from Existentialism's idea that the universe exists outside of personal perspective, and that each individual can chose es own morality that works within that concrete universe.

We believe that existentialism owes a lot to the Biblical book of Ecclesiastes.  Please forgive this oversimplification in ignoring differing points of view and reducing complex philosophical systems into nutshells:

Existentialism: Our lives have no ultimate purpose; everything is meaningless; life is a bore; everything is absurd.  You may choose to eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die; we end in nothingness.  There is no God.

Ecclesiastes:  Our lives have no ultimate purpose; everything is meaningless; life is a bore; everything is absurd.  Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die; we may well end in nothingness.  There is a God.

It's probably for this reason that Christians seldom quote Ecclesiastes, except for the "there's a time for every season" part (which I like).  I find it fascinating that a book of the Christian Bible contradicts much of modern day Christianity.  Principia Discordia uses parts of the Bible and Christian theology/methodology to contradict it too.

[V3X]

It is, to me, absurd (probably rightly so) that there are actually serious discussions on the theological and ethical implications of Discordianism. I read the PD, and to me it's pretty obvious these were two wise-asses who had a few spare minutes and wrote down a bunch of unrelated crap and called it a Holy Book, for the hell of it.

There are useful bits and pieces, for sure, but I'd say that signal-to-noise ratio of the PD is no higher than that of the Bible or the Koran or a Bazooka Joe wrapper.

Discordianism, IMHO, isn't a coherent religion or philosophy, but an opportunity for people who would normally never talk to each other to find common ground they'd otherwise never know they had. The emphasis on the absurd and the contradictory as ideas and not as examples is its strong suit. Everyone has disorder in their lives, and that gives Discordianism a pool of potential recruits that includes everybody, not just those who share similar experiences or cultures.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

It is, to me, absurd (probably rightly so) that there are actually serious discussions on the theological and ethical implications of Discordianism. I read the PD, and to me it's pretty obvious these were two wise-asses who had a few spare minutes and wrote down a bunch of unrelated crap and called it a Holy Book, for the hell of it.

There are useful bits and pieces, for sure, but I'd say that signal-to-noise ratio of the PD is no higher than that of the Bible or the Koran or a Bazooka Joe wrapper.

Discordianism, IMHO, isn't a coherent religion or philosophy, but an opportunity for people who would normally never talk to each other to find common ground they'd otherwise never know they had. The emphasis on the absurd and the contradictory as ideas and not as examples is its strong suit. Everyone has disorder in their lives, and that gives Discordianism a pool of potential recruits that includes everybody, not just those who share similar experiences or cultures.

What some people consider "Discordian Philosophy" sometimes seems to me, to have most of its roots in RAW's books rather than the PD. I particularly like RAW's philosophy, but I think, if anything the PD philosophy gets summed up at the end:

If you can master nonsense as well as you have already learned to master sense, then each will expose the other for what it is: absurdity. From that moment of illumination, a man begins to be free regardless of his surroundings. He becomes free to play order games and change them at will. He becomes free to play disorder games just for the hell of it. He becomes free to play neither or both. And as the master of his own games, he plays without fear, and therefore without frustration, and therefore with good will in his soul and love in his being.

And when men become free then mankind will be free.
May you be free of The Curse of Greyface.
May the Goddess put twinkles in your eyes.
May you have the knowledge of a sage,
     and the wisdom of a child. Hail Eris.

[Reverend Loveshade]

I'm under the impression most young intellectual Japanese can read English very well.

According to my token Japanese-American friend Fairy Princess Yoshikyoko, English is a standard subject in Japanese schools, possibly because of the strong business ties between Nihon and Amerika.  What is tricky, as I think someone already pointed out, is relating to the cultural references, English puns (which often don't translate well from America to England, let alone Japan), etc.

[Reverend Loveshade]

It is, to me, absurd (probably rightly so) that there are actually serious discussions on the theological and ethical implications of Discordianism. I read the PD, and to me it's pretty obvious these were two wise-asses who had a few spare minutes and wrote down a bunch of unrelated crap and called it a Holy Book, for the hell of it.

I don't claim to be an expert, but there were dozens of people who worked on it, rewrote it, re-edited, etc. over a period of several years.  The conception of Discordianism came in around 1958; partial drafts of Summa Universalia and The Honest Book of Truth in late 1950s/early 1960s; 1st edition of P.D. in 1965; followed by 2nd and then 3rd in 1969, and then finally 4th edition in March 1970 (yes, I know there's a so-called 5th edition).  I'm sure our Discordian Historian Rev. DrJon has more details on this than I do.

Note that Principia Discordia (4th edition) ends with, "If you think the PRINCIPIA is just a ha-ha, then go read it again."

[Reverend Loveshade]

....Discordianism, IMHO, isn't a coherent religion or philosophy, but an opportunity for people who would normally never talk to each other to find common ground they'd otherwise never know they had. The emphasis on the absurd and the contradictory as ideas and not as examples is its strong suit. Everyone has disorder in their lives, and that gives Discordianism a pool of potential recruits that includes everybody, not just those who share similar experiences or cultures.

I like this quote.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

It is, to me, absurd (probably rightly so) that there are actually serious discussions on the theological and ethical implications of Discordianism. I read the PD, and to me it's pretty obvious these were two wise-asses who had a few spare minutes and wrote down a bunch of unrelated crap and called it a Holy Book, for the hell of it.

I don't claim to be an expert, but there were dozens of people who worked on it, rewrote it, re-edited, etc. over a period of several years.  The conception of Discordianism came in around 1958; partial drafts of Summa Universalia and The Honest Book of Truth in late 1950s/early 1960s; 1st edition of P.D. in 1965; followed by 2nd and then 3rd in 1969, and then finally 4th edition in March 1970 (yes, I know there's a so-called 5th edition).  I'm sure our Discordian Historian Rev. DrJon has more details on this than I do.

Or at least, that's what the old bastards told us

Note that Principia Discordia (4th edition) ends with, "If you think the PRINCIPIA is just a ha-ha, then go read it again."

*nods*

If anything, I think that the Principia and it's writers were espousing an absurdest philosophy. A lot of the concepts of perception and reality tunnels and grids and stuff, seem added post-RAW... but even in the first ed. the concept that life is absurd seems to come through pretty strongly.

[Misery's Feed Trough]

Honestly, I think it's all common sense.  I mean, I haven't read any RAW or any of the other supposed texts Discordians should read after or before they read the PD.  And as soon as I read the PD it was a total, "Well, Duh" moment.  I completely got it and understood what they were trying to get at.  Indeed, I've since discovered ways to work in these philosophies into my day job, without the stone-age comedy bits.  I mean, the Reality Grids can easily be boiled down into an idea about the how's and why's of different cultures, how they behave and how they interact.  Law of 5s is the basic "Everything is not what it seems" moral.  Nonsense as Salvation the "Don't be so damned serious all the time" meme.  All ideas I've heard or thought before I read the PD, it was just nice to see them all together and presented with some jokes. 

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Honestly, I think it's all common sense.  I mean, I haven't read any RAW or any of the other supposed texts Discordians should read after or before they read the PD.  And as soon as I read the PD it was a total, "Well, Duh" moment.  I completely got it and understood what they were trying to get at.  Indeed, I've since discovered ways to work in these philosophies into my day job, without the stone-age comedy bits.  I mean, the Reality Grids can easily be boiled down into an idea about the how's and why's of different cultures, how they behave and how they interact.  Law of 5s is the basic "Everything is not what it seems" moral.  Nonsense as Salvation the "Don't be so damned serious all the time" meme.  All ideas I've heard or thought before I read the PD, it was just nice to see them all together and presented with some jokes. 

Not as common as you may think... for me the PD was a trip into a whole other area of ideas.  But then, my history had been full of Aristotelean TRUTH! Heck, JW's refer to their religion as "The Truth". It's quite common to hear someone say "How long have you been in The Truth?" or "How has The Truth changed your life?" in casual conversation. I came from a reality where there was no question as to the existence of Jesus... in fact, I was sure that they had secular evidence for it. I had no doubt that there was no real evidence for evolution, or that there was any question that the Hebrews may not have been slaves in Egypt. There was no doubt in my mind that the Police were mostly good, that drugs turned you into a fiend, sex addict or murderer and that Wiccans were under the control of the Demons... and yes, I believed that there were Demonized persons, and demonized objects (makes shopping at yard sales tricky). I remember my parents waking me up and having my sisters and I gather everything with Smurfs on it, so they could burn it... because an Elder had called them, in the middle of the night, to warn them that the organization was being alerted... a family had been attacked by Smurfs that had come off the wallpaper and bitten them. The brothers confirmed that "Smurf" was german for demon and was obviously a demonic ploy.

I think that what I experienced, in the months immediately following my first read of the PD... was much like a cabbage waking up to find out its human... or a robot that suddenly figured out it was being fed bad data...

[A.N. Other]

Discordianism to this one: The only religion in the world that went out of it's own way to make itself confusing and still ended up making more sense then all of the other theologies of the formal religions of the world.

[Requia ☣]

I completely failed to get the point the PD was making, and took it at mostly face value, as a piece of absurdism and/or a particularly psychotic branch of paganism.

I actually came tio this forum with the intent of figuring out what the hell was really going on behind it.


Are Jehova's Witnesses really that nuts?