Author Topic: The Truth...  (Read 5285 times)

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: The Truth...
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2008, 10:37:00 pm »
We don't need drugs to cope with the insanities of modern life, but the vast majority of people in the US think they do.

Second point, tho....ABSOLUTELY. Imprisoning people is apparently the only solution to our problems that we can come up with. What should we do about the murderers, rapists, thieves, and various other criminals? Lock 'em up. You see someone doing something you think they shouldn't be doing? Lock 'em up. Someone's painting outside the lines? Daring to step away from the herd? Lock 'em up.

Sometimes I think prisons should be outlawed.

Prisons are for those who cannot exist without preying on others.

Murderers, rapists, thieves, and Halliburton execs. 

Potheads?  Meh.  All they do is sit on the couch, eating Cheetohs.
"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre."
- Frank Zappa

Roo

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Re: The Truth...
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2008, 10:58:55 pm »
We don't need drugs to cope with the insanities of modern life, but the vast majority of people in the US think they do.

Second point, tho....ABSOLUTELY. Imprisoning people is apparently the only solution to our problems that we can come up with. What should we do about the murderers, rapists, thieves, and various other criminals? Lock 'em up. You see someone doing something you think they shouldn't be doing? Lock 'em up. Someone's painting outside the lines? Daring to step away from the herd? Lock 'em up.

Sometimes I think prisons should be outlawed.

Prisons are for those who cannot exist without preying on others.

Murderers, rapists, thieves, and Halliburton execs. 

Potheads?  Meh.  All they do is sit on the couch, eating Cheetohs.

Ideally, yeah. But my point is that prisons have become such a catch-all solution for every kind of crime, that we're throwing the potheads in with the thieves, and the Halliburton execs in with the rapists...and putting so damn many people in jail, that we're creating more of a problem than existed in the first place. The average citizen is a criminal, if you look hard enough...and that's just fucked up.

Outlawing prisons seems to me like it would require us to actually face the problems in our society, rather than locking them up and hoping they go away. If someone is a direct threat to the rest of us, why do we allow them to live in our communities? Or at all? Also, why are they a threat to us in the first place? What creates a killer or rapist (or whatever)? I get the impression that beyond academia, no one is really interested in finding out the answers to those questions, because it's so much easier to just lock 'em up.

Not that I want to go turning all the predators loose right this minute. :wink:

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: The Truth...
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2008, 11:03:34 pm »
Ideally, yeah. But my point is that prisons have become such a catch-all solution for every kind of crime, that we're throwing the potheads in with the thieves, and the Halliburton execs in with the rapists...and putting so damn many people in jail, that we're creating more of a problem than existed in the first place. The average citizen is a criminal, if you look hard enough...and that's just fucked up.

Outlawing prisons seems to me like it would require us to actually face the problems in our society, rather than locking them up and hoping they go away. If someone is a direct threat to the rest of us, why do we allow them to live in our communities? Or at all? Also, why are they a threat to us in the first place? What creates a killer or rapist (or whatever)? I get the impression that beyond academia, no one is really interested in finding out the answers to those questions, because it's so much easier to just lock 'em up.

Not that I want to go turning all the predators loose right this minute. :wink:

So, because we throw harmless people in prison when we shouldn't, we shouldn't throw murderers there, either?

And have you ever MET an actual hardened criminal?  They aren't that way because they want a fucking HUG.  They're that way because they are essentially sociopaths.

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre."
- Frank Zappa

hunter s.durden

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Re: The Truth...
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2008, 11:05:46 pm »
I wouldn't throw too much effort into this conversation.

She's the one that wanted a death penalty for all rapists.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: The Truth...
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2008, 11:06:58 pm »
I wouldn't throw too much effort into this conversation.

She's the one that wanted a death penalty for all rapists.

Meh.  Everyone is deranged in one way or another.

TGRR,
An expert on the subject.
"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre."
- Frank Zappa

Roo

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Re: The Truth...
« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2008, 11:11:50 pm »
Ideally, yeah. But my point is that prisons have become such a catch-all solution for every kind of crime, that we're throwing the potheads in with the thieves, and the Halliburton execs in with the rapists...and putting so damn many people in jail, that we're creating more of a problem than existed in the first place. The average citizen is a criminal, if you look hard enough...and that's just fucked up.

Outlawing prisons seems to me like it would require us to actually face the problems in our society, rather than locking them up and hoping they go away. If someone is a direct threat to the rest of us, why do we allow them to live in our communities? Or at all? Also, why are they a threat to us in the first place? What creates a killer or rapist (or whatever)? I get the impression that beyond academia, no one is really interested in finding out the answers to those questions, because it's so much easier to just lock 'em up.

Not that I want to go turning all the predators loose right this minute. :wink:

So, because we throw harmless people in prison when we shouldn't, we shouldn't throw murderers there, either?

And have you ever MET an actual hardened criminal?  They aren't that way because they want a fucking HUG.  They're that way because they are essentially sociopaths.



No. and no. What I am saying is that we throw way too many fucking people in jail, and we shouldn't do that. And that maybe what hardens a criminal isn't life in society, but life spent locked in a cell. Maybe some of them really are born that way, but maybe we make some of them that way by how we treat them. And HSD is right...you shouldn't put too much effort into this. I'm one of those deranged idealists. :p

Roo

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Re: The Truth...
« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2008, 11:14:53 pm »
I wouldn't throw too much effort into this conversation.

She's the one that wanted a death penalty for all rapists.

and as you'll recall, as soon as I got my head out of my ass, I realized that wouldn't be a very good solution.

Guan Yin
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Cain

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Re: The Truth...
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2008, 11:15:35 pm »
Often the events that create a hardened criminal are ones you cannot hope to fix, or in many cases even detect.  There are warning signs for, say, serial killers (an example I know a bit about) but they're hardly gospel pieces of evidence, and certainly wouldn't stand up to close scrutiny if they alone were the basis of a charge.  And I have issues with the state having the power to legally execute people anyway, so in such a case, prison really does seem like the best solution.

That said, I think the majority of white collar and victimless crimes do result in pointless jail terms because of a lack of imagination or out of a desire to be seen as "tough" on crime.

spaceboi

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Re: The Truth...
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2008, 02:57:27 am »
I wouldn't throw too much effort into this conversation.

She's the one that wanted a death penalty for all rapists.

Who, me? I have NEVER advocated the death penalty. Ever.

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: The Truth...
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2008, 02:58:23 am »
I wouldn't throw too much effort into this conversation.

She's the one that wanted a death penalty for all rapists.

Who, me? I have NEVER advocated the death penalty. Ever.

No.  Roo.
"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre."
- Frank Zappa

hunter s.durden

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Re: The Truth...
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2008, 02:59:18 am »
No, Guan Yin or Roo.

You, my dear, have been riding correct motorcycles all thread long.
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spaceboi

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Re: The Truth...
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2008, 03:03:00 am »
...You, my dear, have been riding correct motorcycles all thread long.

Well fuck...I'm doing something wrong, then.

hunter s.durden

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Re: The Truth...
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2008, 03:04:59 am »
You'll snap out of it, hang in there.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: The Truth...
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2008, 03:06:10 am »
...You, my dear, have been riding correct motorcycles all thread long.

Well fuck...I'm doing something wrong, then.

Kick em in the nads.
"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre."
- Frank Zappa