Author Topic: Time Travel Ramblings  (Read 11772 times)

Daruko

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Re: Time Travel Ramblings
« Reply #60 on: June 01, 2008, 08:17:11 pm »
I'd rather just wait a few years for full immersion virtual reality.

for the fifth time, it's already there for two decades, and nobody wants it. i've used it, coded some apps for it and it's boring as fuck.

maybe glue yourself to a couch and swallow some shrooms and zap yourself some full immersion TV if you need it so badly?

i don't think you understand what i mean by "full immersion".
take a look around the room you're in.  that's full immersion. 

Thurnez Isa

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Re: Time Travel Ramblings
« Reply #61 on: June 01, 2008, 08:23:02 pm »
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Mangrove

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Re: Time Travel Ramblings
« Reply #62 on: June 01, 2008, 08:30:16 pm »
I think we have enough problems dealing with the reality we already have to contend with (BIP).

Spending vast amounts of time, money, brain power and other resources on making total virtual reality is, IMHO, a complete waste.

Ok, so you get to replicate our sensory experience, which we're already having. Big deal. And more to the point, even if you could make absolute virtual reality, if you keep doing what you're doing, you keep getting what you're getting.

That is, putting some emotionally crippled socal retard into a VR suit that costs millions of dollars, then all you've achieved is wrapping a doofus in something expensive. Hell, Paris Hilton et al do that on a daily basis and the technology involved is minimal.

If this sooper VR set-up existed, people would almost inevitably do dumb things with it. If their basic programming is on a low level, they will take the most sophisticated invention ever and continue to be morons.

We need people to be dealing with their present reality in a more effective & constructive way. Unless this technology actually achieved some educational or medical purpose it'll be a bust. Maybe that's why it's been around for 20+ years and no one cares.

What makes it so? Making it so is what makes it so.

Thurnez Isa

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Re: Time Travel Ramblings
« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2008, 08:40:25 pm »

We need people to be dealing with their present reality in a more effective & constructive way. Unless this technology actually achieved some educational or medical purpose it'll be a bust. Maybe that's why it's been around for 20+ years and no one cares.


oh once it "full immersions" and "complete escapism" they will care
Through me the way to the city of woe, Through me the way to everlasting pain, Through me the way among the lost.
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Abandon all hope, you who enter here.

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Triple Zero

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Re: Time Travel Ramblings
« Reply #64 on: June 01, 2008, 09:34:03 pm »
i don't think you understand what i mean by "full immersion".
take a look around the room you're in.  that's full immersion.

ok so poly rates were a littlebit lower, and there were no other senses except for visuals. adding full-surround sound wouldn't be that hard, but tactile is going nowhere. simulating smell is going to be impossible due to the enormous range of chemicals involved, unless you get a direct neural connection, which, again, is not going to happen. taste could theoretically be done, but without smell it's not that exciting at all.

i now expect you to come up with some link about the latest hyper sooper tactile feedback dataglove or whatever. it's going nowhere, seriously.

oh, right, motion tracking devices. with millimeter accuracy and less than 5ms latency? people tend to forget about those things, but if the image on your VR glasses doesn't move *exactly* right when you move your head around, immersion = RUINED. anything good and affordable?

hey, if you can find some report about people that hooked up Second Life to a real VR Cave or some such thing, i'd be interested to read about their experience. would be the closest thing we got going right now.

although actually, you'd need two locations with a similar setup. then you could virtually talk.

problem is, you'd need motion tracking devices to track body language. we're not there yet, by a long stretch.

i mean, the tech at my university 5 years ago (what i played with) is what might have been on the market right now if anybody really cared, right?

have you ever done any kind of programming, Daruko? graphics programming?

i think if you want some cool sort of semi-VR, get a couple of webcams from different angles, some Computer Vision algorithm that turns that into a very rough representation of your 3D orientation, maps the video image of your body on a polyhedron roughly approximating your posture, simply renders it on a screen (fuck stereo vision really, it's a dumb trick, as i already said), and a skype connection.
oh did i mention you're gonna get a shitload of network latency problems?
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Roo

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Re: Time Travel Ramblings
« Reply #65 on: June 01, 2008, 09:35:24 pm »
Mang- I think it would lead to much more than replication of our current reality. And while I agree with your point about humanity's stupidity, I'm far too much of an optimist and an idealist to not hope that we would do something good for a change. I mean, when I look at what the internet is today...it's certainly got a bunch of crap in it. But it's also chock full of good things, and just the availability of information and communication is phenomenal. That simple thing is leading to exponential leaps in technology and education. Which also means that we don't need to put vast amounts of resources into it. Those who are interested in it, will be able to hook up with others who have the same interests, and they can put their heads together, while leaving the rest of society to do other things.


Roo

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Re: Time Travel Ramblings
« Reply #66 on: June 01, 2008, 09:36:20 pm »
Damnit 000! I want my smell-o-vision! :argh!:

Triple Zero

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Re: Time Travel Ramblings
« Reply #67 on: June 01, 2008, 09:55:45 pm »
you know the reason why i think VR is stupid?

i can already build my own communication channels.

i can webcam with you (video)
i can skype with you (phone-over-internet)
i can teamspeak with you and others (conference call-over-internet)

but if we were to communicate, one-on-one, simple text IM (MSN/AIM/etc) is most efficient! have you ever skyped (or VOIPed) with someone you don't know? webcammed? someone you did know? how did that work out? if they were not your girlfriend? how much useful information did you exchange?

now compare to IM, how much useful info did you exchange there?

next up, IRC. tremendously useful, no matter what TGRR says, the amount of stuff we coordinated there, the brainstorming we do, the social cohesion it creates, invaluable. (i forgive TGRR though, i understand his reservations, but IRC served me very well)

adding to that, forums. even better, forums got non linear time! you don't get that in skype, webcam or VR!
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Mangrove

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Re: Time Travel Ramblings
« Reply #68 on: June 01, 2008, 10:43:26 pm »
Mang- I think it would lead to much more than replication of our current reality. And while I agree with your point about humanity's stupidity, I'm far too much of an optimist and an idealist to not hope that we would do something good for a change. I mean, when I look at what the internet is today...it's certainly got a bunch of crap in it. But it's also chock full of good things, and just the availability of information and communication is phenomenal. That simple thing is leading to exponential leaps in technology and education. Which also means that we don't need to put vast amounts of resources into it. Those who are interested in it, will be able to hook up with others who have the same interests, and they can put their heads together, while leaving the rest of society to do other things.



To tell the truth, I am normally a lot more optimistic about things than my post conveys.   :)

It's taken millions of years for the truly incredible sensory mechanisms of humans to evolve - so why spoil it by putting on a glove and glasses, plug into a computer and 'sort of' mimic picking things up?

As I said, I want to see a convincing list of benefits if such a technology existed. I'd be all for it for instance, if there were meaningful therapeutic applications. That'd be something I'd hope for.

I agree with TI - full immersion VR sounds like full escapism. Large potential for horrormirth.
What makes it so? Making it so is what makes it so.

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Time Travel Ramblings
« Reply #69 on: June 01, 2008, 11:04:10 pm »
you know the reason why i think VR is stupid?

i can already build my own communication channels.

i can webcam with you (video)
i can skype with you (phone-over-internet)
i can teamspeak with you and others (conference call-over-internet)

but if we were to communicate, one-on-one, simple text IM (MSN/AIM/etc) is most efficient! have you ever skyped (or VOIPed) with someone you don't know? webcammed? someone you did know? how did that work out? if they were not your girlfriend? how much useful information did you exchange?

now compare to IM, how much useful info did you exchange there?

next up, IRC. tremendously useful, no matter what TGRR says, the amount of stuff we coordinated there, the brainstorming we do, the social cohesion it creates, invaluable. (i forgive TGRR though, i understand his reservations, but IRC served me very well)

adding to that, forums. even better, forums got non linear time! you don't get that in skype, webcam or VR!

 :argh!:
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Re: Time Travel Ramblings
« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2008, 11:11:24 pm »
:argh!:

hey, if the thread in Meta-Forum would be named "WE HAVE FULLY IMMERSIVE VR!" instead, i'd be :argh!:-ing right next to you ;-)

(right before i'd join you to take a virtual dump in their virtual sinks)
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PeregrineBF

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Re: Time Travel Ramblings
« Reply #71 on: June 02, 2008, 03:10:01 am »
Haven't read thread. Just thinking: If an antiproton travelling forward in time is equivalent to a proton travelling backward in time, and the same for all other antiparticles, then wouldn't all the time travellers explode unless they did it deep in interstellar space?

Faust

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Re: Time Travel Ramblings
« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2008, 11:53:11 pm »
If an antiproton travelling forward in time is equivalent to a proton travelling backward in time
what makes you say this is the case?
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