Author Topic: Creativity in a Cultural Wasteland  (Read 25948 times)

Anch

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Re: Creativity in a Cultural Wasteland
« Reply #60 on: June 25, 2008, 10:11:42 pm »
EDIT:   Anti-Piracy, Veganism, and people who vehemently oppose litter on account of it "harming the environment" seem eerily similar to me.   For instance, all three ideologies involve masturbatory ego boosts revolving around strong certainty (usually coupled with activism) and completely pointless self-imposed limitations.

 :cn: 
 
 
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Of course, I get dangerously close to doing the same, if I ridicule these people for choosing not to pirate, eat whatever, or not litter.
Well, yes.
You are.
Actually, you are doing JUST the SAME.
help I'm trapped in a online-personality-machine and can't escargh

Daruko

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Re: Creativity in a Cultural Wasteland
« Reply #61 on: June 25, 2008, 10:34:26 pm »
And what.. you didn't bother reading the next line?

I don't go around telling people they're assholes for not littering, or for not eating meat, or for pirating data.

However, I often encounter people who think their shit doesn't stink and mine does, because I litter (easily biodegradable stuff, rather than throw it in the garbage where it ends up in landfill; and don't even start that shit about recycling unless you're prepared to state you NEVER throw anything in the garbage and attack everyone who does), eat meat, and pirate data.

Fucking ideological bullshit.  That's all.   And I don't buy it.   I also don't buy that LMNO never pirates anything.  And I also can't believe the audacity of someone who posts something FREELY DOWNLOADABLE, and then turns around and calls you a "freeloader" if you find enjoyment in not paying for it.  You can have it for free, but you're an asshole unless you're deeply grateful and don't support piracy!  pffft!  Suck it pussy.

Anch

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Re: Creativity in a Cultural Wasteland
« Reply #62 on: June 25, 2008, 10:57:57 pm »
And what.. you didn't bother reading the next line?
You mean the one about THEM being wrong about imposing THEIR moral standarts on you?
Or the Crowley-quote?
Because, you know, if veganism is an ideology, I guess Thelema is as well.

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And don't even start that shit about recycling unless you're prepared to state you NEVER throw anything in the garbage and attack everyone who does
Why so? I always thought that you don't have to completely refrain from drinking alcohol to qualify as a non-drunk, metaphorically speaking.

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Fucking ideological bullshit.  That's all.   And I don't buy it.   I also don't buy that LMNO never pirates anything.  And I also can't believe the audacity of someone who posts something FREELY DOWNLOADABLE, and then turns around and calls you a "freeloader" if you find enjoyment in not paying for it.
Well, if you run around going 'Nerh nerh nerh, I'm not paying you ANYTHING AT ALL! Har har har!', if you're actually "finding enjoyment in not paying" for someone else's stuff, instead of finding enjoyment in consuming the product without having to spend money on it, then you do seem to be on the ideological-freeloader-fringe, don't you think?


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You can have it for free, but you're an asshole unless you're deeply grateful and don't support piracy!  pffft!  Suck it pussy.
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I don't go around telling people they're assholes for not littering, or for not eating meat, or for pirating data.
help I'm trapped in a online-personality-machine and can't escargh

Daruko

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Re: Creativity in a Cultural Wasteland
« Reply #63 on: June 26, 2008, 12:00:22 am »
You mean the one about THEM being wrong about imposing THEIR moral standarts on you?
Or the Crowley-quote?
Because, you know, if veganism is an ideology, I guess Thelema is as well.

Of course it's an ideology.  I have no problem with having ideologies... I just don't take them so seriously as to look down on someone for not sharing them.   I look down on the looking down, so to speak.   Sort of like being racist against racists, or sexist against feminists/chauvinists.  I could care less if LMNO agrees with me about Pirating and it's ethical implications.  Maybe I haven't made that clear enough.   That's why I stated to begin with I wasn't seriously interested in discussing the ethics of piracy and copyrights.  It's a complex issue I do not wish to oversimplify.   However, don't make it out like I'm asshole, just because you're reality tunnel suggests to you piracy hurts people (even with their previous consent?), while mine suggests it's simply natural and doesn't have to hurt people.  Simply two different positions, and I'm frankly still confused as to what LMNO's is.   What I do know, is that there are a hell of a lot of pirates around here, for one to be getting pompous about copyrights.   I've already thrown a wild guess that LMNO does pirate some things, and simply sets the bar somewhere to accomodate his pirating wants.

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And don't even start that shit about recycling unless you're prepared to state you NEVER throw anything in the garbage and attack everyone who does
Why so? I always thought that you don't have to completely refrain from drinking alcohol to qualify as a non-drunk, metaphorically speaking.

In my example, I was referring to people who bitch about ANY littering, and proceed to throw paper and biodegradable products in the trash.

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Well, if you run around going 'Nerh nerh nerh, I'm not paying you ANYTHING AT ALL! Har har har!', if you're actually "finding enjoyment in not paying" for someone else's stuff, instead of finding enjoyment in consuming the product without having to spend money on it, then you do seem to be on the ideological-freeloader-fringe, don't you think?

What the hell is wrong with THAT?  you just stated the same thing, one more romantically than the other, and called them two different things.  No I don't think enjoying any facet of the enjoyable spectrum of my fantastic crazy psyhadelic human experience puts me on the ideological-freeloader-fringe.  That whole idea is ridiculous to me.. How can one be an ideological freeloader?  This implies to me that one is obligated to "be" something for others.  I think that's elitist thinking. 

Now remember I fuck shit up when debating, so perhaps shave a bit off of the tone here, please.   I don't mean to come off snobbish myself.  It's may be too easy for me to sound a bit indignant, when someone publicly judges me for something I've formed my own ideas about; not even strongly even, but it appears a stronger conviction when on defense.   I can only throw my weight as much as my worth in opinions, which isn't much at all, but for just that much worth, I find that having enjoyed the freeness of LMNO/Payne's creation in and of itself is just fine. 






N E T

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Re: Creativity in a Cultural Wasteland
« Reply #64 on: June 26, 2008, 12:59:07 am »

I look down on the looking down, so to speak.


:mullet:

You just lost all respect I had for you.
“There are some defeats more triumphant than victories.” - M I C H E L   D E   M O N T A I G N E

Daruko

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Re: Creativity in a Cultural Wasteland
« Reply #65 on: June 26, 2008, 01:01:18 am »

I look down on the looking down, so to speak.


:mullet:

You just lost all respect I had for you.

Wut?  No Yuo.

N E T

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Re: Creativity in a Cultural Wasteland
« Reply #66 on: June 26, 2008, 01:06:47 am »

I look down on the looking down, so to speak.


:mullet:

You just lost all respect I had for you.

Wut?  No Yuo.

Go fuck yourself, you hypocritical buffoon.
“There are some defeats more triumphant than victories.” - M I C H E L   D E   M O N T A I G N E

Daruko

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Re: Creativity in a Cultural Wasteland
« Reply #67 on: June 26, 2008, 01:07:47 am »

I look down on the looking down, so to speak.


:mullet:

You just lost all respect I had for you.

Wut?  No Yuo.

Go fuck yourself, you hypocritical buffoon.

Suck it pussy.

Put it in your butt.

N E T

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Re: Creativity in a Cultural Wasteland
« Reply #68 on: June 26, 2008, 01:13:07 am »

I look down on the looking down, so to speak.


:mullet:

You just lost all respect I had for you.

Wut?  No Yuo.

Go fuck yourself, you hypocritical buffoon.

Suck it pussy.

Put it in your butt.

Nobody likes you here dumbass.

You've been given more chances than you deserve and blown all of them because you're a douchebag to the core of your being.

Choke on your mom's smegma and die.

That is all.
“There are some defeats more triumphant than victories.” - M I C H E L   D E   M O N T A I G N E

Daruko

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Re: Creativity in a Cultural Wasteland
« Reply #69 on: June 26, 2008, 01:17:00 am »
Your assburgers flaring up or something there Net?   :lulz:

Cain

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Re: Creativity in a Cultural Wasteland
« Reply #70 on: June 26, 2008, 01:13:15 pm »
Funnily enough, we all managed to have a perfectly sensible discussion on piracy and copyright up in Apple Talk.  We may have disagreed on points, but we all managed to make sensible arguments and counterpoints, and find some terms of agreements.  Meanwhile, Daruko down here is pissing and moaning and throwing his toys out of the pram (not to mention looking down on people for looking down on people, so add hypocrisy to the list) over something that wasn't serious anyway.

Too funny.

Triple Zero

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Re: Creativity in a Cultural Wasteland
« Reply #71 on: June 26, 2008, 01:37:11 pm »
(heh Cain, was going to say the same thing: ignoring daruko's shit flying all over the place -- funny little monkey, him)

anyway, i still wanna make this reply, a thing that's been stewing in my head for the past two days.

No, that wasn't my intention.

However, you have saved this forum more than a few times, and I'd toss a few bucks your way if you wanted.

first, if you wanna pay anyone, pay faust. he is already paying for the server after all.

second, what i was thinking of is this piece in the Art of Memetics. it's about Mastermind groups. when i read this description, the first thing that popped to mind was "hey this is PD.com!" :

Quote from: the Art of Memetics, pirate edition
Using a mastermind group to analyze feedback loops is an
incredibly   powerful  tool,  and    we   advise   designing
mastermind sessions consciously and with an eye toward
regular meetings in the same environment to create a
consistency, which in turn helps support the group mind’s
synergistic effects.
To reiterate, be selective of your input, capture your
output, feed it back to yourself, and continue this process
until you are comfortable with sharing your output with a
larger audience.
Declare your right to comment on all the
media that enters your life.      Record this commentary,
review it, and then comment and react to your own media.
Release the best of your commentary to others. Begin to
take this process of iterative production, selection, and
feedback to a mastermind group, and watch as ideas
assemble themselves out of the raw material of your
experience and the insight of the mastermind group.
This is a kind of memetic autopoiesis, the mastermind
group being the hardware for this program or pattern to run
on. Masterminds are essentially laboratories for memetic
construction. Each person within the mastermind group
will generate unique material in relation to the media being
input, as each person has a different mix of memetic
content, processing capability, and life experience. As the
                                                          149
ideas assemble themselves through the lens of the group
mind, those with the most vitality and appeal are more
readily discernable.     What might appear attractive
internally can become stagnant and stale to a group, while
what seems ludicrous and valueless internally might
become vibrant and profound with a few minor tweaks by
other mastermind members.

the great thing is, we are already doing this, and it's working wonderfully. creating stuff, throwing it on PD.com, getting feedback, reviewing, remaking, etc, until it's something we want to inject in an external network (which is something we're getting better and better at as well).

i was just afraid that, somewhere adding in voluntary $1 payments, even starting as a joke or sociololgical experiment, might throw a wrench in those gears, that are really starting to get up to speed, it seems. but maybe i'm just imagining nonexistant bears on the road or something.

third, in my music collection, i have a special directory labeled "discordiania", where i store all of the discordian audio productions from these fora (several recorded rants and other stuff), and i must say, this one is pretty much the best in there so far. i played it to some friends yesterday, and they liked it as well (except they didn't have the patience to listen to all the words). it's really good, nice tune, nice beats, good work! (btw RWHN's "Spag" makes a good second, music-wise)
« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 04:52:49 pm by triple zero »
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e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

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Daruko

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Re: Creativity in a Cultural Wasteland
« Reply #72 on: June 26, 2008, 02:29:42 pm »
Did you're appletalk thread start with posturing about paying, and then flinging shit at anyone who postures about not paying?

Words people.    Racist against Racists is like only Believing in having no Beliefs.  Language is funny.   If you want to make me out a hypocrite, because you don't want to look past the "apparent" contradiction of the language, then so be it.   Forget every point I made, doesn't matter.    Exercise your right to be wrong.

A hypocrite is someone who freely distributes something and then runs you down for enjoying it's freeness.  A hypocrite is someone who endorses this act, and then joins in flinging shit at the guy enjoying the freeness, all the while people enjoying freeness all over PD with various pirated materials floating this way and that.   But don't TALK about it!  We only posture when we PAY!

I've got my finger right on it.  It's right in your face, and you won't acknowledge it because I don't have a certain style or something.   Nope, you can ignore the rhetoric, and get right down to the STFU/No Yuo! statements. 

One more thing:  I won't stop enjoying freeness, of course.  There's A LOT more FREE stuff right here at PD.    Start up those paypal accounts guys.  We don't like us no pirates round these parts.  Damn ideological freeloaders.

Probably done ITT, since so far people would rather fling shit than address the real issue.

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Re: Creativity in a Cultural Wasteland
« Reply #73 on: June 26, 2008, 03:09:41 pm »

second, what i was thinking of is this piece in the Art of Memetics. it's about Mastermind groups. when i read this description, the first thing that popped to mind was "hey this is PD.com!" :


I will be in your mastermind group if, and only if, you can guarantee it will be used exclusively for purposes of evil/world domination
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Re: Creativity in a Cultural Wasteland
« Reply #74 on: June 26, 2008, 05:22:37 pm »

i was just afraid that, somewhere adding in voluntary $1 payments, even starting as a joke or sociololgical experiment, might throw a wrench in those gears, that are really starting to get up to speed, it seems. but maybe i'm just imagining nonexistant bears on the road or something.

third, in my music collection, i have a special directory labeled "discordiania", where i store all of the discordian audio productions from these fora (several recorded rants and other stuff), and i must say, this one is pretty much the best in there so far. i played it to some friends yesterday, and they liked it as well (except they didn't have the patience to listen to all the words). it's really good, nice tune, nice beats, good work! (btw RWHN's "Spag" makes a good second, music-wise)

000, no worries.  If you've noticed, over here and at poee.co, I've got dozens of pieces up and about, for free.  When I finally get my "Earfatigue presents: Gerund" project going (the one that will hopefully allow me to quit my job and start making money off of my work), I'll be posting the tracks here for free as well -- with the hope that some of y'all will help pimp my name into the web0sphere.


Final word: If I post a free download, it's free.