Author Topic: Why is Discordia more relevant than ever in the year 2008?  (Read 36312 times)

Hoopla

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Re: Why is Discordia more relevant than ever in the year 2008?
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2008, 12:45:03 pm »
Discordia will always be more relevant to me personally than in any kind of "cause" or "movement".

Yes, things in society are fucked up, yes "everyone" thinks that "everyone" else wants things to be this way, and there is nothing that they can do about it as individuals. Yes, they are wrong.

But all of this means nothing to me.

I am not an activist, I don't go out of my way to try and convert people anymore. I used to, but then I thought it was mandatory or at least expected. Since I decided for myself that it wasn't, I don't do it. I don't expect people to wake up unless they want to do it themselves, I certainly don't expect it to ever make sense for them unless they do it in the hardest and unfunniest ways, but that may be my jaded and bitter inner self talking.

Discordia is not a movement, it is not a purpose, it is not a cause. It's a state of mind. A state of mind that connects a diverse group of people who wouldn't give each other the time of day if they met socially in other circumstances and didn't have the call signs Discordia offers, the "fluff" like 23, Eris or Principia Discordia.

I like that. I like talking to people who I normally would never talk to, who would normally never talk to me.

Discordia is at times an excellent way of tying some of us together to work on projects that normally would never be worked on, like Paths and Shrapnel, PosterGASM and some of the weird and wonderful art projects that have grown out of these forums.

I like that. I like working with people on plans and projects that may have some relevance to how I think about my life, or can help decorate it in a way that makes me question what decoration is.

Discordia will always be relevant to me in some way because of this. Its worth far outweighs the effort of getting anything back from it.

I like models, I like art, I like exploring the weirder aspects of our psyches, and the even weirder methods of exploiting what we find.

I like to laugh, hate, cry and love, as we as humans are meant to, not as we have been conditioned to. As I've only learned to do with some intense soul searching and some pain. Discordia has been the chair I've sat down in when I'm weary, the desk I've used to write some of the most personal and important things I've ever written, it has been the mirror in which I've seen what I am, what I was and what I want to be.

And I've learned to not care what others are thinking about it all, except in specialised circumstances, for example: when I feel like it.

I know what I've learned, I've learned to question what I know, and I've learned to learn more, always learn more.

For me, Discordia is a question, an answer and everything else in between, and it is so huge that I could spend a lifetime exploring it.

Is Discordia relevent? Certainly for me, maybe for you.

:mittens:  This should go on the blog. 

I put a bunch up on my blog, but yeah, it should be put up on the PD blog as well.
"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman

Payne

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Re: Why is Discordia more relevant than ever in the year 2008?
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2008, 01:12:13 pm »
Posted to the blog then.

 :mrgreen:

I really should do more writing.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Why is Discordia more relevant than ever in the year 2008?
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2008, 01:45:28 pm »
In today’s so-called “Information Age”, most of us are constantly bombarded with stuff.  Perhaps not with ideas, so much as pure input.  While for the most part this input is pretty much bias-neutral, an increasing amount of it is being supplied by people who have an angle.

You think the input is "pretty much bias-neutral"? I think (almost?) all of it has an angle of some sort. Maybe we're defining this differently. Can you explain what you mean by that?

Law of Fives.  There is far more neutral sensory input than biased out there, but you're just noticing the deliberately manipulative stuff.  Try looking for the stuff that's value-neutral, either intentionally or unintentionally.

Do you mean that the universe supplies information that we can call value-neutral (notwithstanding how humans perceive it) or that humans perceive that value neutral information as value neutral?
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Re: Why is Discordia more relevant than ever in the year 2008?
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2008, 01:50:16 pm »
Um... both?


I think I mean that there is a vast amount of information that was not created with the specific intent of manipulation.
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Re: Why is Discordia more relevant than ever in the year 2008?
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2008, 02:31:22 pm »
Note: I have not read beyond the second post.


Why is Discordianism still relevant in 2008?

Because I am the The Decider, and I have decided that it is.

Debate over.

Oh, alright then, some more evidence.

Two thousand and eight kicked off, in my mind at least, with two major events.  The first was the US Presidential election.  The second was the Anonymous “war” on Scientology.  The first of these two quickly became a spiralling mess of such a degree that parody and satire often seemed more reasonable than what was actually being said.  Therefore, parody and satire need to step up to the plate, and have done so admirably.  In a country where Stephen Colbert or Jon Stewart can give more prescient and accurate news than many of the major news stations, in such a country comedy with a message is King.

The second was interesting, because it showed how an internet subculture with no centralization, no money and little in way of common purpose (indeed they often flaunted their chaotic and contradictory ways) could pose a threat to a very powerful and rich, highly centralized religious cult.

Change is still the name of the game.  As corporate elites have stepped up to the plate, promoting and co-opting every new youth movement and subculture, in some cases from almost the very start, subversive counterculture has done a vanishing act.  It still exists, and its still there, but its a true invisible college, taking form on the internet and in the street.  Flashmobs and other microcultures have become very possible with the rise of mass membership websites such as Facebook, putting Situationist tactics into the hands of online activists, who can construct an event with a few clicks, so long as they can get enough people interested.    Appear, perform and disperse.  We're evolving and changing, because anyone who stands still for too long is going to end up in the cross-hairs of one marketing executive or another.  Subversion and change, nanoculture and personal freedom, are becoming synonymous.

We're continuing to have a small, if noticed effect on the mainstream as well.  V for Vendetta and Lost, a program and a film with some very Discordian influences, are favourites of viewers all over the world.  High Weirdness is back in fashion, too.  It doesn't matter if its a giant artistic piece of dogshit which has got loose, or J. J. Abrams latest show (the X-Files esque TV program he intends to air on Fox this fall), the strange and the odd are still capturing imaginations and peoples curiosity.

Chaos, equally, is back in fashion more than ever.  No matter if its politics or the music industry, the old rules of how things are done, and the elites who control them, are under a barrage of assaults from newcomers and individuals with the power to move and shake the industries they work in.  With the second internet revolution in full swing, its becoming easier than ever to get one's voice out there, create an audience, be heard, and bypass the traditional methods of control to say what you want.  Equally the weather and the stockmarkets are both going crazy, and becoming ever harder to predict.  Many of the old assurances seem to be crumbling in the bright lights of the 21st century.

The arts of obfuscation, disruption and, well, we can only call it trolling have become more popular than ever, diffusing down into society.  Since trolling is part Situationist theatre, part postmodern identity shifting, and we have natural advantages in areas such as that, we have an edge on tactics that the media, the blogs and activists are only just starting to grasp.

Religious fundamentalism is back on the scene, with all the stupidity and farce such an event brings.  Whether its bearded lunatics in caves or meth-taking, rent-boy hiring, homophobic minister, religion is once again proving its potential to destroy lives, ruin countries and damn people on the flimsiest of charges.  And so, it must come as a relief to many to find a religion that doesn't want your unquestioning obedience, wont damn you to hell for your sins, doesn't want your time or money or impose any strange dietary practices (barring those with hotdogs), but wants you to have a good time and tell anyone who tries to get in your way to STFU.
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Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Why is Discordia more relevant than ever in the year 2008?
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2008, 02:57:31 pm »
Um... both?


I think I mean that there is a vast amount of information that was not created with the specific intent of manipulation.

But, can any human process information without manipulating it in some way? Can they share information without manipulating it in some way?

Non-manipulated information might exist in some sense, but perhaps in the same manner that Objective Reality exists ;-)

Maybe it exists somewhere outside of the BiP?
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Re: Why is Discordia more relevant than ever in the year 2008?
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2008, 03:07:56 pm »
Note: I have not read beyond the second post.


Why is Discordianism still relevant in 2008?

Because I am the The Decider, and I have decided that it is.

Debate over.

Oh, alright then, some more evidence.

Two thousand and eight kicked off, in my mind at least, with two major events.  The first was the US Presidential election.  The second was the Anonymous “war” on Scientology.  The first of these two quickly became a spiralling mess of such a degree that parody and satire often seemed more reasonable than what was actually being said.  Therefore, parody and satire need to step up to the plate, and have done so admirably.  In a country where Stephen Colbert or Jon Stewart can give more prescient and accurate news than many of the major news stations, in such a country comedy with a message is King.

The second was interesting, because it showed how an internet subculture with no centralization, no money and little in way of common purpose (indeed they often flaunted their chaotic and contradictory ways) could pose a threat to a very powerful and rich, highly centralized religious cult.

Change is still the name of the game.  As corporate elites have stepped up to the plate, promoting and co-opting every new youth movement and subculture, in some cases from almost the very start, subversive counterculture has done a vanishing act.  It still exists, and its still there, but its a true invisible college, taking form on the internet and in the street.  Flashmobs and other microcultures have become very possible with the rise of mass membership websites such as Facebook, putting Situationist tactics into the hands of online activists, who can construct an event with a few clicks, so long as they can get enough people interested.    Appear, perform and disperse.  We're evolving and changing, because anyone who stands still for too long is going to end up in the cross-hairs of one marketing executive or another.  Subversion and change, nanoculture and personal freedom, are becoming synonymous.

We're continuing to have a small, if noticed effect on the mainstream as well.  V for Vendetta and Lost, a program and a film with some very Discordian influences, are favourites of viewers all over the world.  High Weirdness is back in fashion, too.  It doesn't matter if its a giant artistic piece of dogshit which has got loose, or J. J. Abrams latest show (the X-Files esque TV program he intends to air on Fox this fall), the strange and the odd are still capturing imaginations and peoples curiosity.

Chaos, equally, is back in fashion more than ever.  No matter if its politics or the music industry, the old rules of how things are done, and the elites who control them, are under a barrage of assaults from newcomers and individuals with the power to move and shake the industries they work in.  With the second internet revolution in full swing, its becoming easier than ever to get one's voice out there, create an audience, be heard, and bypass the traditional methods of control to say what you want.  Equally the weather and the stockmarkets are both going crazy, and becoming ever harder to predict.  Many of the old assurances seem to be crumbling in the bright lights of the 21st century.

The arts of obfuscation, disruption and, well, we can only call it trolling have become more popular than ever, diffusing down into society.  Since trolling is part Situationist theatre, part postmodern identity shifting, and we have natural advantages in areas such as that, we have an edge on tactics that the media, the blogs and activists are only just starting to grasp.

Religious fundamentalism is back on the scene, with all the stupidity and farce such an event brings.  Whether its bearded lunatics in caves or meth-taking, rent-boy hiring, homophobic minister, religion is once again proving its potential to destroy lives, ruin countries and damn people on the flimsiest of charges.  And so, it must come as a relief to many to find a religion that doesn't want your unquestioning obedience, wont damn you to hell for your sins, doesn't want your time or money or impose any strange dietary practices (barring those with hotdogs), but wants you to have a good time and tell anyone who tries to get in your way to STFU.

very well said indeed, I am in complete agreement

 :mittens:

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Re: Why is Discordia more relevant than ever in the year 2008?
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2008, 03:10:20 pm »
Um... both?


I think I mean that there is a vast amount of information that was not created with the specific intent of manipulation.

But, can any human process information without manipulating it in some way? Can they share information without manipulating it in some way?

Non-manipulated information might exist in some sense, but perhaps in the same manner that Objective Reality exists ;-)

Maybe it exists somewhere outside of the BiP?

Who said anything about shared information as being the sole type of information that exists?

Information is not limited to communication.
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Re: Why is Discordia more relevant than ever in the year 2008?
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2008, 03:16:51 pm »
Um... both?


I think I mean that there is a vast amount of information that was not created with the specific intent of manipulation.

But, can any human process information without manipulating it in some way? Can they share information without manipulating it in some way?

Non-manipulated information might exist in some sense, but perhaps in the same manner that Objective Reality exists ;-)

Maybe it exists somewhere outside of the BiP?

Who said anything about shared information as being the sole type of information that exists?

Information is not limited to communication.

Well, I can agree with that. Maybe you could provide me an example of the sort of information you're thinking of?
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

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Re: Why is Discordia more relevant than ever in the year 2008?
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2008, 03:18:36 pm »
Walking out into the steet and seeing a bus coming at you is a form of information.
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Buy the Chao te Ching, or be doomed forever.

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Re: Why is Discordia more relevant than ever in the year 2008?
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2008, 03:29:44 pm »
Walking out into the steet and seeing a bus coming at you is a form of information.

But isn't 'seeing' both communication of information (light bouncing into eyes, processed by rods and cones and sent to brain) and manipulation? The brain processes information, ties it to symbols and interprets it into "OSHI! Bus!" or "Ah, Bus, but since you just had some Angel Dust, it won't hurt you." or "Ah Bus, life sucks and it will all be over soon."

Or am I missing something here?
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Re: Why is Discordia more relevant than ever in the year 2008?
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2008, 03:32:59 pm »
The information of the bus coming at you is value neutral; no external entity is trying to manipulate your actions or is employing propoganda or putting spin on the bessage or trying to hand you a line of bullshit.


What the fuck, Rat?  Are you missing the forest here?
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Re: Why is Discordia more relevant than ever in the year 2008?
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2008, 03:41:44 pm »
The information of the bus coming at you is value neutral; no external entity is trying to manipulate your actions or is employing propoganda or putting spin on the bessage or trying to hand you a line of bullshit.

Ahh, but internal entities are.  The fact of the bus is value neutral; how you perceive the bus is not.
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Re: Why is Discordia more relevant than ever in the year 2008?
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2008, 03:49:50 pm »
Note: I have not read beyond the second post.


Why is Discordianism still relevant in 2008?

Because I am the The Decider, and I have decided that it is.

Debate over.

Oh, alright then, some more evidence.

but how does the (very astute, imo) analysis following the above prove that you are teh decider???

 :D

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Re: Why is Discordia more relevant than ever in the year 2008?
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2008, 03:52:51 pm »
semantics aside, I think I understood what LMNO meant. That the information age is presenting new and unique problems in communication. There's just so much more of it now than there ever was. And that since Discordia is very much about making personal choices about information and separating signal from noise, it's an extremely valuable tool for dealing with 21st century civilization.