Poll

Which of the following best describes what you Actually Believe about the Deity?

I worship some variation of the Christian / Jewish / Muslim God
Buddhist / Taoist / Eastern somethingorother
Agnostic -  I couldn't possibly know
Atheist - I believe in no gods
I believe in Eris as an entity but do not follow other Gods
I believe Eris is one of many Gods
I prefer not to define myself
I don't give a fuck about all that stuff
Something else not on this list

Author Topic: What do you REALLY believe?  (Read 132628 times)

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

  • Probably
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 8974
    • View Profile
Re: What do you REALLY believe?
« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2008, 06:15:23 pm »
Agnostic, verging on atheism.  I think gods don't exist, but I don't Really Really Truthfully Know (100%) if that is the case.

I also see gods as useful symbols or metaphors, depending on context and deployment.
This is basically what I believe even though I have a reputation as more atheist than agnostic.  I just like pointing and laughing at all of the people who think that they KNOW the unknowable.  But it fucking scares me when those same people manage to get themselves in positions of power.

I've also got a bit of ignostism / theological noncognitivism: we can't even talk about "god" until someone gives a coherent definition for "god".  

I usually get past the ignostic position by holding that anyone can define "god"... then we can look at that definition and see how likely/unlikely it is. In some cases, definitions of gods are incoherent, self-contradictory and based on old texts that don't seem particularly reliable. Those seem pretty easy to hold a position against. On the other hand, if the individual has defined God as they were personally inspired to do, based on experiences that they have had... that makes things a lot more tricky IMO.
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

Elder Iptuous

  • Professional Discordian and Physiognomist
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 56216
  • terribly tedious
    • View Profile
Re: What do you REALLY believe?
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2008, 06:21:22 pm »
I've also got a bit of ignostism / theological noncognitivism: we can't even talk about "god" until someone gives a coherent definition for "god". 

This is what lead me from my standard protestant upbringing to the 'pantheism' that i claim now.  I just decided that the only definition of 'god' that i could work with, and was acceptable was 'that which there is no greater than'.  This seems to me to be pantheism....
Do you have a working definition of 'god' in your belief system that you use?

Eater of Clowns

  • Deposed Mexico
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 57907
  • Limpid Lust Pariah of Foulness
    • View Profile
Re: What do you REALLY believe?
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2008, 06:24:59 pm »


Hey can I borrow someone's shit stirring spoon?  Mine's all full of shit.
EoC, you are the bane of my existence.

EoC doesn't make creepy.

EoC makes creepy worse.

Quote
the afflicted persons get hold of and consume carrots even in socially quite unacceptable situations.

the last yatto

  • really did
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 65629
  • Weeeeeeeeee
    • View Profile
Re: What do you REALLY believe?
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2008, 06:28:21 pm »
'Cthulhu'

cause someone has to punish me when im bad, and hes the bes... OMG QUICK RUN!!!
Look, asshole:  Your 'incomprehensible' act, your word-salad, your pinealism...It BORES ME.  I've been incomprehensible for so long, I TEACH IT TO MBA CANDIDATES.  So if you simply MUST talk about your pineal gland or happy children dancing in the wildflowers, go talk to Roger, because he digs that kind of shit

Cainad (dec.)

  • Houseplant Supreme
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 93574
  • The Emperor's Hairy Right Hand
    • View Profile
    • Internet Forum Safari
Re: What do you REALLY believe?
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2008, 06:28:34 pm »
<interjection>

I'd like to point out that when I say "I prefer not to define myself," I mean it in the sense that I don't define myself even to myself, much less to other people.

</interjection>

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

  • Probably
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 8974
    • View Profile
Re: What do you REALLY believe?
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2008, 06:31:17 pm »
'Cthulhu'

cause someone has to punish me when im bad, and hes the bes... OMG QUICK RUN!!!

So just Cthulhu, or do you go in for all the Great Old Ones and Elder Gods?
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

"Back in my day, crazy meant something. Now everyone is crazy" - Charlie Manson

the last yatto

  • really did
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 65629
  • Weeeeeeeeee
    • View Profile
Re: What do you REALLY believe?
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2008, 06:33:04 pm »
im sure the others are there, its just hes the one that called dibs on my soul.
Look, asshole:  Your 'incomprehensible' act, your word-salad, your pinealism...It BORES ME.  I've been incomprehensible for so long, I TEACH IT TO MBA CANDIDATES.  So if you simply MUST talk about your pineal gland or happy children dancing in the wildflowers, go talk to Roger, because he digs that kind of shit

Golden Applesauce

  • Token Apologist
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 22325
  • Where does this text go?
    • View Profile
Re: What do you REALLY believe?
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2008, 07:47:59 pm »
Cram - about your hypothesis:
I bet the FSM, Googlites, CoSG are almost entirely atheist/agnostics.

Discordja, with its occultish and new-agey overtones could easily have a lot more of "spiritual, not otherwise specified."

I've also got a bit of ignostism / theological noncognitivism: we can't even talk about "god" until someone gives a coherent definition for "god". 

This is what lead me from my standard protestant upbringing to the 'pantheism' that i claim now.  I just decided that the only definition of 'god' that i could work with, and was acceptable was 'that which there is no greater than'.  This seems to me to be pantheism....
Do you have a working definition of 'god' in your belief system that you use?

Pantheism is an interesting position to consider.  If you define Reality as a whole to be "Deity," then it's pretty hard to argue against the existence of deity.  (GA: isn't a nihilist unless there is no alternative.)  But in that case, what does the existence of the divine imply?  Other religions base normative statements off of the existence of god, or since their god is wise and good, substitute its judgment for their own.  Others try to get on the good side of god through offerings or deeds.  You have religions that promote having a personal relationship with divine figures and religions that use divine figures as adversaries to test yourself against.  The divine has a function in the believers' worldview/philosophy/theology.

I just don't see how defining the world to be god is useful in any way.

[Personally, I tend towards a cross of weak atheism / functional atheism.  "Hypothetically, there could be a god.  But even if there was, it wouldn't make a difference."]
Q: How regularly do you hire 8th graders?
A: We have hired a number of FORMER 8th graders.

LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoom™
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87546
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: What do you REALLY believe?
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2008, 07:49:06 pm »
Discordja, with its occultish and new-agey overtones could easily have a lot more of "spiritual, not otherwise specified."

600 posts here, and you still think that?

Cainad (dec.)

  • Houseplant Supreme
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 93574
  • The Emperor's Hairy Right Hand
    • View Profile
    • Internet Forum Safari
Re: What do you REALLY believe?
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2008, 07:52:07 pm »
Discordja, with its occultish and new-agey overtones could easily have a lot more of "spiritual, not otherwise specified."

600 posts here, and you still think that?

I think GA was referring to the Greater Sphere of Discordja, of which PD.com is a part. Or maybe not.

Triple Zero

  • DO NOT ABUSE EXCEPT FOR URGENT FURNITURE MOVING EMERGENCIES
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 80835
  • Horrible and Sexy Queen of Cheese
    • View Profile
    • Random BIP
Re: What do you REALLY believe?
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2008, 08:02:04 pm »
hm okay i clicked "other" before i read the rest of the thread.

so if i'm going to take "Agnostic" to mean "Agnostic, in the widest sense of the word" and ignore the "I couldn't possibly know" bit cause it's irrelevant to my beliefs yet still Agnostic fits closest, maybe, i changed my vote to Agnostic. but really, i wouldn't possibly know (which however is irrelevant to my beliefs).

maybe i should have picked "i prefer not to define myself" but that sounds to me as almost nearly as much of a cop-out as "other". you know, if they were checkboxes instead of radio-buttons, i'd have picked "atheist" + "agnost" + "undefined", cause really i switch between all three when necessary and really don't want to pick anyone as "closest".
but since that makes me sort of undecided (in a way, cause i wouldnt agree with that assessment), i'll settle for agnost.

okay?
Ex-Soviet Bloc Sexual Attack Swede of Tomorrow™
e-prime disclaimer: let it seem fairly unclear I understand the apparent subjectivity of the above statements. maybe.

INFORMATION SO POWERFUL, YOU ACTUALLY NEED LESS.

Elder Iptuous

  • Professional Discordian and Physiognomist
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 56216
  • terribly tedious
    • View Profile
Re: What do you REALLY believe?
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2008, 08:02:24 pm »
Pantheism is an interesting position to consider.  If you define Reality as a whole to be "Deity," then it's pretty hard to argue against the existence of deity.  (GA: isn't a nihilist unless there is no alternative.)  But in that case, what does the existence of the divine imply?  Other religions base normative statements off of the existence of god, or since their god is wise and good, substitute its judgment for their own.  Others try to get on the good side of god through offerings or deeds.  You have religions that promote having a personal relationship with divine figures and religions that use divine figures as adversaries to test yourself against.  The divine has a function in the believers' worldview/philosophy/theology.

I just don't see how defining the world to be god is useful in any way.

[Personally, I tend towards a cross of weak atheism / functional atheism.  "Hypothetically, there could be a god.  But even if there was, it wouldn't make a difference."]

The gods in the religions that you refer to are descibed with a will similar to that of humans.  I don't.  It seems to me that intelligence, and self awareness in humans is a function of high levels of complexity with lots of feedback loops (like Hofstadter describes in his writings).  This can be extrapolated to the highest level, to show that it is likely there is some type of ultimate self awareness (albeit totally internalized as opposed to operating in an external environment) that accompanies the universe at large.  This is a comfort to one who has abandoned the beliefs that i grew up with.  From this definition it also follows that everything that happens is the 'behavior' of god, and can be interpreted to therefore be in accordance with the 'will' of god.  Again, a comfort to me.

that's about it.

I'm missing something with your weak atheism, i think.  how are you defining 'god' in that context? the bearded guy?

Golden Applesauce

  • Token Apologist
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 22325
  • Where does this text go?
    • View Profile
Re: What do you REALLY believe?
« Reply #57 on: October 21, 2008, 08:02:38 pm »
Discordja, with its occultish and new-agey overtones could easily have a lot more of "spiritual, not otherwise specified."

600 posts here, and you still think that?

I think GA was referring to the Greater Sphere of Discordja, of which PD.com is a part. Or maybe not.

Yeah.  The BIP definitely lends itself to agnosticism, but neo-paganism seems to be have a foothold in other Discordias.  Y'know, the people who come in and tell us that mahdjipickleque has really real effects because of the quantum wavefront of the brain, or that every belief is valid because its what they believe, or that if we could just make it to Leary's 8th circuit...

Those guys.
Q: How regularly do you hire 8th graders?
A: We have hired a number of FORMER 8th graders.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

  • v=1/3πr2h
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 687093
  • The sky tastes like red exuberance.
    • View Profile
Re: What do you REALLY believe?
« Reply #58 on: October 21, 2008, 08:07:46 pm »
I'm an ancestor-worshipper.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


LMNO

  • Lubricated and Rabid Lungfish of Impending Sexdoom™
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 87546
  • Internet Fuckweasel of Haunted Pork Dimensions.
    • View Profile
    • Earfatigue Productions: When it has to sound like you give a shit.
Re: What do you REALLY believe?
« Reply #59 on: October 21, 2008, 08:08:32 pm »
I'm an ass worshipper.