Author Topic: Preaching to the choir, perhaps  (Read 2474 times)

Payne

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Preaching to the choir, perhaps
« on: November 04, 2008, 05:41:26 pm »
This is not a hug from your mummy.

This isn't kissing it better.

It isn't being able to stay up a bit later with a cup of warm milk when you've had a nightmare.

Life sucks. Hard. And it's only going to get worse, you can see the signs everywhere. It's in our politics, it's in our banks, it's in our TeeVees, It's in our advertisements and our schools and our stores and in our streets.

You can't walk down those streets anymore without feeling dirty, as the apes breathe out the air you are breathing in, an endless cycle of sharing each others air, in and out out and in.

This is not democracy.

This is not people power.

This is not a shift in the market.

The election is just a symptom, it's just a reflection of the apes infesting central North America. Vote, and get a free loaf of bread. Bread and circuses. Seriously, that is actually happening.

Augustus limited the borders of the Roman Empire, knowing that to try and control more would lead to more hassle than it was worth. Maintain the borders with the legions, keep the army away from Rome as much as possible, reduce it's influence over the politics of the Empire.

Where are the limits of the American Empire? Have they now be found?

This is not the end.

This is not the beginning of the end.

This is not even the end of the beginning.

This is the same old story, the decline and fall of an empire into corruption, decadence and ultimate failure.

It is a time for yetis, it is a time for getting your yuks in, it is a time to get mad as hell while you still can.

P3nT4gR4m

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Re: Preaching to the choir, perhaps
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2008, 08:12:16 pm »
It's time to kick back and crack open a beer as the currency collapses and the new dark ages provides unfettered opportunity to plunder the ashes of civilisation.

Or, much more likely, it'll carry on the fucking same as usual but with different faces dangling from the puppet strings of democracy :evilmad:
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Jenne

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Re: Preaching to the choir, perhaps
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2008, 03:54:50 am »
IT IS THE END OF DUBYA.

That's all I need.  For the now.

Pope Lecherous

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Re: Preaching to the choir, perhaps
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2008, 12:44:10 pm »
IT IS THE END OF DUBYA.

That's all I need.  For the now.

and how  :lulz:
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Re: Preaching to the choir, perhaps
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2008, 06:43:33 pm »
Yeah but the new regime is half-black and looks damn fine, I think that counts for something.
Im guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk, Charles Wick said. It was very complicated.


Jenne

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Re: Preaching to the choir, perhaps
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2008, 06:46:50 pm »
Damn straight it does, Nigel. 

Cain

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Re: Preaching to the choir, perhaps
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2008, 01:39:04 pm »
If we're to continue the Roman analogy, an Augustus is a long way off.  Roman imperium started under the Republic, we should remember, just as the Athenian empire expanded massively under the democratic government.  In the case of Athens, they overreached, and paid for it dearly, as their enemies, Sparta and Persia, united, razed the city and installed an oligarchical tyranny (the reign of Thirty Tyrants).  In Rome, increased militarization of their foreign policy and the close links between riches, military command and political power, along with an increasingly disgruntled lower class (whom certain Roman factions were entirely against gruntling) led to a civil war.  As you point out, Augustus was smart.  He realized that continued expansion would lead to continued social unrest and produce ambitious challenges to his rule.

Of course, the current system is not exactly the same.  But there are parallels.  The military-political link is much weaker, but the commerical military and political commercial links are so very much stronger.  An economic crisis is threatening to sink the middle class, making paupers out of much of the population.

The question of limits may not be up to America for much longer.  China cleaves to its territorial sovereignty, even as the economic forces it has unleashed in the country seek to undermine it.  A backlash will not be far in the coming, and the angry, mostly workless young men of eastern China, filled with hate for America and Japan, may soon be swept to power on a tide of populist rage and xenophobic nationalism.  Russia too, has demonstrated that American control of the international system effectively stops at its borders.  Furthermore, it pounded on an American military ally for a week longer than necessary, just to show it could.  Missiles are being placed in Kaliningrad in a couple of weeks, which the Russians claim effectively counters the American missile defence system.  Whether this is true or not is immaterial.  It shows a dangerous militarization of Europe that has not been seen since the end of the Cold War.

Augustus had the benefit of choosing his limits.  He emerged from a ruinous civil war, from which few powers could take advanage.  America will likely not face the same sort of crisis, but equally not be not so lucky.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 01:40:51 pm by Cain »

Payne

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Re: Preaching to the choir, perhaps
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2008, 05:32:21 pm »
Cool. I didn't think there would be an Augustus (I think that neither Obama or McCain, or any other U.S. politician known to me would dare to publicly admit those kind of limits, let alone try to enforce them or tailor policies to tacitly enforce them). But yes, I can see how the the situation was completely different for the Roman Empire, Imperial or Republic, both domesticly or abroad.

Maybe drawing an analogy to the Roman situation was a bit lazy :D

Another point you mentioned that I'd like to pick up on though:

The recent policy in eastern Europe and in the Caucasus makes me really uneasy. It appears to be a deliberate attempt to goad Russia, regardless of the reasons for those specific policies (the missile shield in Eastern Europe, and trying to protect the flow of oil through Georgia, off the top of my head). I don't think that baiting bears is a very healthy past time...