Author Topic: Evidence of a Global SuperOrganism?  (Read 6676 times)

Cramulus

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Evidence of a Global SuperOrganism?
« on: October 28, 2008, 04:13:02 pm »
"a malformed packet could also be an emergent signal""

http://www.kk.org/thetechnium/archives/2008/10/evidence_of_a_g.php

interesting food for thought

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Evidence of a Global SuperOrganism?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2008, 04:32:04 pm »
Interesting!

I think there are some valid points, but the "emergent properties = malformed packets" seems like a bit of a strecth to me. The number of malformed packets on the Internet is huge, to think that anyone would be able to identify all of the various hacks, OSI stack bugs etc seems kinda silly. I would have expected that, at least, 5% of the malformed packets would be unidentifiable. Programmers are constantly writing new apps and sending packets over the wire, OS bugs are myrriad and not all docuemtned... and combinations of software stacks can create unidentified bugs as well.

So, I give the guy full marks on everything but that bit. I think he stretched credulty a bit with that claim ;-)

Otherwise, its a great essay. I've played around a lot with cluster, grid and cloud computing and I think that if we're gonna see emergent properties with the net, it will probably come from these giant processing systems. Amazon's system could be particularly interesting since it can bring up new nodes immediately on command (virtual hosts), unlike the older cluster style where individual systems had to be manually connected. This provides potential for a constantly expanding and contracting system based on its immediate needs. From the work I've done with it... its damned inspiring.
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Re: Evidence of a Global SuperOrganism?
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2008, 04:39:56 pm »
I thought this was going to be a thread about Gaia Hypothesis, but I guess this is fine too.  :D
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Cramulus

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Re: Evidence of a Global SuperOrganism?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2008, 04:58:17 pm »
If there's going to be an emergent superorganism, I think Discordians should call dibs on it.

Let's put it in our pantheon right now, so when it is recognized, we'll look like we've been "worshipping" it all along.

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Re: Evidence of a Global SuperOrganism?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2008, 05:07:26 pm »
Can we call it George?

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Evidence of a Global SuperOrganism?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2008, 05:10:37 pm »
If there's going to be an emergent superorganism, I think Discordians should call dibs on it.

Let's put it in our pantheon right now, so when it is recognized, we'll look like we've been "worshipping" it all along.

Gibson beat us to it... The book 'Count Zero' discusses emergent entities as 'gods', particularly as Voodoo Lwa/Loa. 
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

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singer

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Re: Evidence of a Global SuperOrganism?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2008, 05:23:34 pm »
If there's going to be an emergent superorganism, I think Discordians should call dibs on it.

Let's put it in our pantheon right now, so when it is recognized, we'll look like we've been "worshipping" it all along.

Gibson beat us to it... The book 'Count Zero' discusses emergent entities as 'gods', particularly as Voodoo Lwa/Loa. 

That was a big chunk of 'Neuromancer' too.
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Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Evidence of a Global SuperOrganism?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2008, 05:24:57 pm »
If there's going to be an emergent superorganism, I think Discordians should call dibs on it.

Let's put it in our pantheon right now, so when it is recognized, we'll look like we've been "worshipping" it all along.

Gibson beat us to it... The book 'Count Zero' discusses emergent entities as 'gods', particularly as Voodoo Lwa/Loa. 

That was a big chunk of 'Neuromancer' too.

Yeah, but all the cool "being ridden by the Loa" stuff happened in Count Zero ;-)
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

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Re: Evidence of a Global SuperOrganism?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2008, 07:16:48 pm »
Can we call it George?

"Ralph" or GTFO.

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Re: Evidence of a Global SuperOrganism?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2008, 07:56:55 pm »
Every time I see this I read Super Orgasm  :lulz:

 :fap:

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Re: Evidence of a Global SuperOrganism?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2008, 08:04:18 pm »
Every time I see this I read Super Orgasm  :lulz:

 :fap:
A large portion of the superorganism's 'neurological signals' would be comprised of pr0n.....
what kind of impact does that have, assuming that it could parse its' own makeup?...

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Re: Evidence of a Global SuperOrganism?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2008, 09:02:57 pm »
If there's going to be an emergent superorganism, I think Discordians should call dibs on it.

Let's put it in our pantheon right now, so when it is recognized, we'll look like we've been "worshipping" it all along.

Gibson beat us to it... The book 'Count Zero' discusses emergent entities as 'gods', particularly as Voodoo Lwa/Loa. 

That was a big chunk of 'Neuromancer' too.

Yeah, but all the cool "being ridden by the Loa" stuff happened in Count Zero ;-)

You win.
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Cainad (dec.)

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Re: Evidence of a Global SuperOrganism?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2008, 11:27:21 pm »
2 cents: If this emerging intelligence ever deigns to talk to us, I think hope it will use Jabberwacky to communicate.

Cramulus

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Re: Evidence of a Global SuperOrganism?
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2008, 12:12:17 am »
2 cents: If this emerging intelligence ever deigns to talk to us, I think hope it will use 4chan to communicate.

fixed

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Re: Evidence of a Global SuperOrganism?
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2008, 10:08:54 pm »
I think there are some valid points, but the "emergent properties = malformed packets" seems like a bit of a strecth to me. The number of malformed packets on the Internet is huge, to think that anyone would be able to identify all of the various hacks, OSI stack bugs etc seems kinda silly. I would have expected that, at least, 5% of the malformed packets would be unidentifiable. Programmers are constantly writing new apps and sending packets over the wire, OS bugs are myrriad and not all docuemtned... and combinations of software stacks can create unidentified bugs as well.

i agree it's a bit of a stretch, but for a different reason.

in the guy's essay it seems to me one would need to consider buggy software part of the system. afterall, buggy software is just software that doesn't do what it's supposed to do from our perspective. if it fulfills an important need in the consciousness of the Internet, it doesn't need to be useful to us. however please notice the guy does *not* argue the Internet has already reached this fourth "conscious" stage, but just poses that some of these undefined packets may be the first blips of what could in the future be used as an infrastructure for this consciousness.

the reason why i think it's a bit of a stretch is that i expect this consciousness to appear in a much more obvious and simple place. i don't know where or how, but there are more than enough obvious, sensible and controllable pathways the awakening Internet could use for synapses than in buggy software and malformed packets. Things do not need to be hidden in dark corners and mysterious codes all the time. reality is not a cyberpunk novel and this is no longer the "web of old" where all the hackers, (old red) crackers and seekers were scheming, controlling, reversing and monitoring from behind the scenes in hidden messageboards. (even though they're still there, of course)

btw if this AI is going to have a name, I vote for "Qxapoiu". Google it, it's one of the first and most intriguing examples of emergence in the history of the Internet. After Google's defeated the Linkfarms a few years ago, most of its traces are gone (used to be millions of hits and talk of confused seekers, and copies of these talks, and copies of copies of copies of copies), but I believe that http://www.aaxis.com/qxapoiu.htm still has the correct story.

Quote
Otherwise, its a great essay. I've played around a lot with cluster, grid and cloud computing and I think that if we're gonna see emergent properties with the net, it will probably come from these giant processing systems. Amazon's system could be particularly interesting since it can bring up new nodes immediately on command (virtual hosts), unlike the older cluster style where individual systems had to be manually connected. This provides potential for a constantly expanding and contracting system based on its immediate needs. From the work I've done with it... its damned inspiring.

i worked a lot with networks that display emergent properties, and while i think it's likely that as the Internet will continue to develop, it will definitely make use of these services, I don't know much about these grid computers but they sound to me a littlebit too much like monocultures. for emergence of this level you're going to need a lot of complexity and variety, and i think there's way more of that in all the humans sitting behind their desktop PCs doing their thing on the internet, acting like "smart neurons", rather than a big parallel computer? but maybe I'm wrong, as i said I don't know much of cluster, grid or cloud computing.

If there's going to be an emergent superorganism, I think Discordians should call dibs on it.

Let's put it in our pantheon right now, so when it is recognized, we'll look like we've been "worshipping" it all along.

I may have come to a conclusion that these things are a different kind of God. A kind of really big Egregor-ish kind of beings. Sure enough, they're there, and yeah they're called Gods in certain pantheons/belief systems, but all in all, they're pretty much like really big superorganisms, the shadows of higher-level emergent properties of some complex system when projected on our human consciousness. I haven't really worked out the details of my idea yet, but it now seems that worshipping these beings might be a Mistake. worshipping False Gods, in some way.
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