I've spent a lot of time thinking about this board, and one thing that bothers me a little, besides the hurr tough guy attitude some people have, is this:
12. "You take things too seriously... lighten up. It's just entertainment...."
Your main problem, I suspect, is not that I take things too seriously — after all, you have no idea how much or little time I spend on this — but that I take them seriously at all. What you find offensive is that I consider the crap you like to be a subject of some importance and interest, that I apply certain critical standards to it, that I look at it in a context slightly wider than your lifetime's collection of navel lint....
In which case, you're damned right I take things seriously, you slack-jawed waste of space. Let me tell you a secret: the only people who ever did anything good, did it seriously. In particular, the only people who were ever entertaining took their entertainment seriously. The best comedians are always dead serious about comedy, studying it in depth, constantly exploring comic ideas, tirelessly working to improve their art — in fact, only serious people are ever funny. The real humourless bores are the slackers, the laid-back, the shallow, the trivial: people who spend their lives on their arses, sucking candy, swallowing the shit that's fed to them.
Serious people take an active interest and joy in the world; they participate in it, they strive to improve it, through their actions, through their art, through their presence. When serious people do things, they try to do them well; they don't settle for mediocrity in themselves, or in others. Unserious people — people like you — are the opposite: they settle for ignorance, they're content with crap, they're happy to be second-rate, and get second-rate treatment in return. Serious people make a serious contribution to the world, while you and other slackers contribute nothing but an ever-rising pile of human effluent.
Okay, so it's more about the kind of jackasses that use "It's just entertainment" to excuse shitty pieces of work which some people probably already agree with. But I agree with a lot(not all) of what he says in the bolded section.
Well, first of all, it helps to cite who you're quoting. It's from
http://plover.net/~bonds/stupidresponses.html ; which is an amateur critic listing 15 stupid responses to criticism (he apparently "reviews" music, film, TV and online fiction). So, it has little to do with Discordianism, and nothing to do with this board. It also appears that he is playing fast and loose with his definitions. "Entertainment" seems to be conflating an end product and a subjective opinopn, there's a Gypsy Switch that turns "humor" from subject to attitude, and "serious" is swapped out for "dedicated". So, even from the get-go, you're not off to a good start, here.
Now, I am interested in Discordianism. I found the Principia Discrodia immensely funny, I enjoyed it's Spike Milligan-esque craziness, I like some of the philosophy a lot, many of the memes even after 60, I love Eris as a deity/character/principle/whatever.
What I don't entirely like is the "laid back" attitude people have online these days. It's also the Irish attitude, in general, which bothers me.
At this point, we're gonna have to start pulling out the
. That is to say, which people, and what specifically is this "laid back" attitude? And how the fuck is that "Irish"?
Now, why would you be interested in Discordianism if you take things seriously, you whiny little shit??? You may be asking.
No, actually. It makes me ask, "Do you know that when most Discordians on this board
{note: I am only going to make my generalization regarding Discordians as referring to the posters on this board, since that seems to be the audience you are addressing. I make no claims as to the rest of the spags in the universe} talk about "not being serious," they do
not mean "undedicated", "uninspired", or "unwilling to work hard"?
Maybe you were too wrapped up in your personal drama at the time, but have you seen the effort some of us have put into things here? We've got artists, scientists, scholars, pranksters, publishers, songwriters, and political activists. We've subjected Discordia to scrutiny, torn it apart, and put it back together. We've written songs about it, we've got a stack of essays, and, to refer back to your quote above,
we criticize the hell out of each other.
Now back in the 60s, Discordianism was pretty edgy. For some reason I feel like mentioning Spike Milligan again, my Dad sort of knew him you know. Everything back then was conservative, a bit fake and shallow, too serious, and anything disruptive was a thing of beauty.
Which is totally different from today's culture. Right.
The problem with the modern attitude is systematic silliness. People are laid back, silly, because they believe it's the right thing to do. This is the wrong attitude entirely - either you naturally are or become silly and laid back, or you're not at all. There's no one way for anyone to be, but I don't like apathy.
Maybe you were too wrapped up in your personal drama at the time, but have you seen the effort some of us have put into things here? We've got artists, scientists, scholars, pranksters, publishers, songwriters, and political activists. We've subjected Discordia to scrutiny, torn it apart, and put it back together. We've written songs about it, we've got a stack of essays, and, to refer back to your quote above,
we criticize the hell out of each other.
It's kind of the opposite attitude to what I take. Basically people nowadays are very serious about being "silly". Look at a lot of 4chan/ED related humour - can you imagine anyone laughing about that? It's pedantic, it's insistant. It's ritualistic. Now, I take being silly seriously in a very different way. Personally, I believe a world where you can be more laid back, silly, entertaining, is something to work towards. The problem is too many people nowadays seem to think merely acting like everything is okay - it's the attitude people take towards things like racism, homophobia all too often. Just act like everything's equal, and it'll work out okay.
Where the hell do you see that here? Where have you seen any of us letting racism, homophobia, or any other kind of bigotry slide?
When you take everything in it's stride, taking things in it's stride starts to loose meaning. It is no longer a reaction, but a lack thereof.
I'd just like to point out that you have ceased making sense.
Now taking like, your career, certain social values seriously, is more the problem here. People still do that, and I believe this is a bigger drive behind the original thinking of the Silliness movement of the 50s and 60s. Ireland, where I live by the way, is VERY guilty of that. We have this bullshit laid back sense of humour, that basically means when any serious topic of discussion comes up, it gets spammed to crap(yes, even in real life) with inane unfunny comments that everyone acts like are the most hilarious things ever. But when it comes to their careers and again certain social values, they take it very seriously. This is just so topsy turvy for me.
You mean like the economy, Gaza, Iraq, global warming, US/UK politics? I can point to dozens of threads where there is good, solid content on these subjects. Or are you saying that
jokes are verboten? That any humor (gallows or otherwise) simply can
not be allowed? I guess the Daily Show is a terrible, terrible thing, then.
The idea of whining is a bit aspect of this, and quite frankly, it's what's ruined any hope of decent discussion on most forums. Quite simply put there is nothing logically invalid about "whining", and someone who whines about something doesn't have to take EVERYTHING in life super serious. Without whining, a complaint is never registered, thus when there is a problem, it never gets recognised, never gets corrected. Negative opinions are automatically slammed for being negative(another thing the guy I quoted comments on elsewhere). So in otherwords, if these people who don't take anything too seriously, supposedly, create a very orderly and forceful system, nobody can register a complaint.
Ok, again, I'm not sure you're paying attention. We criticize
everything.
All the time. But that's not the same as whining. Whining relates to the
delivery of criticism, and not the
content of that criticism. Whining is usually a very subjective, often narcissistic, petulant way of complaining. It's annoying. Very telling that you can't seem to make the distinction.
It seems to me if anything a lot of Discordianism was anti-conservative more than anything, which makes the more conservative nature of some of the members here nonsensical, although that's more the anti-intellectual "tough guy" neo-conservative than the 50s conservative attitude.
Neo-Conservatives? In MY forums? Care to name names? This could be fun.
I really like the way that quote points out that most comedians take their humour seriously, and it's true. The difference with internet humour is that people take the humour seriously without realising it, trying not to take it seriously, and thus it just ends up being a poor effort. They don't take the "creation" of the humour seriously like a comedian, but it's supposed necessity instead. Can you imagine if a comedian had a "Laid back" approach to his jokes, but absolutely believed he needed he had to be in every gig he could get? It would become obnoxious. Against, systematic silliness, it's just forced humour which isn't very random at all. Real humour is a more chaotic and confusing art, it's not "forced" in terms of you're doing it for the sake of it, but you still can't just shit it out, once you do that that spontaneous urge, very often you have to lovingly craft it. Of course this isn't true for everyone, but "In general."
A message board is not a stand-up routine. It's a conversation. In a huge bar. Where everyone can hear everything you say. I don't know about you, but when I go to the bar with some friends, we like to joke around. Sure, we'll talk politics, and philosophy, but we really like to laugh and have a good time. We're not trying to craft 15 minutes of outrageous non-stop comedy. We don't plan jokes out ahead of time. We talk, we tease, we kid… We
have fun. We
make jokes.
This has left me divided on where I stand philosophically and how I define myself. I am a naturally disruptive person, if there is some kind of system, I will often automatically shape myself into something that somehow just plain doesn't fit in, even if it means using my own natural weaknesses.
Do you realize that's the meaning behind "black sheep are still sheep"? You believe you're thinking for yourself, but it's just a knee-jerk reaction.
You're still letting the system change who you are. You're not acting independently, you're reacting subserviently.
When I see something too systematic, too contrived, I want to break it down. But at the same time, there are some things I have to take seriously. If you don't take anything seriously, sooner or later you find the world becomes very serious indeed - because then it's the bad dudes who get things done, and not you.
Again, it sounds like your definition of "serious" means you can't have any fun; I want to know why not.
This is my own personal "revision" of some of the Discordian ideas, or more specifically the idea of Eris - the idea of Strife in of itself, that some things simply have to be fucking well fought out before you get anywhere. I like silliness, I like random humour and not taking any aspects of life too seriously, but that's a world you have to fight for and protect, and that fighting is in of itself important, if EVERYTHING is silly, that silliness has no meaning. Moreover, the people who automatically tear down posts such as this one for being "serious" are taking things seriously too - as they're ritualistically. This attitude just gets fucking annoying, for example on online games like Team Fortress where all the skilled player team up for lol Steamrollan, and keep doing it over and over long past any actual funny trolling would be relevant, and if you dare point out how stupid it is, you're told to shut up whining and take it easily. But they're the ones who insist, ritualistically, on teaming up, and pull the same crap over and over, and won't budge in the slightest. Just because it resembles something humorous, does not make it so. It is another false system that needs to be disrupted.
Ok, it's become pretty obvious that you're no longer talking about PD.com. So,
why are you posting this here? Remember, you started this rant saying you were thinking about
this board; then you go off on some stupid online game.
You also seem to feel that just because one person wants to be "serious" or "not make jokes" that everyone else should respect that. But that's not the way it works. If I think you're being "serious" about something that I feel is misguided, stupid, or annoying, I will make fun of it. Ron Paul springs to mind. Could you imagine if we had to treat every RonTard with respect and civility, and make them feel that their "serious" ideas about destroying the Federal Reserve deserve respect? Fuck that.
There are still bits of Discordianism I'll never quite agree with on the basis I mentioned though. A lot of Discordians are anarchists and Libertarians, and while I'm aware Libertarians were a lot more sensible in "those days", again, I believe it's far too idealistic, and that it's something to work towards rather than to presume. Simply put I do not believe it is the government, in many cultures, that does most of the oppressing. People are far too good at oppressing themselves. A lot of people seem to oppose anything short of rape theft and murder being illegal or frowned upon, it's too straight forward, and fails to realise how other people's rights can affect others people's rights. The same problem I have with a lot of the issues earlier - it's overly simplistic, straight forward thinking(which tends to be what most conservatives engage in). It doesn't explore how things affect each other, and the reasoning behind people's actions. It's why some people detest the idea of psychology, and indeed ailments like autism and aspergers, they don't like to accept that there's a more complex level of cause and effect to study here. Very often it's just flat out fucking stupidity that's put up on a pedastal and celebrated because it makes you tuff for sticking to old fashioned, clearly defined principles.
At this point I'm having a hard time not slamming my head against the desk. You think the posters here are Libertarians, or Anarchists? What the fuck? Sure Iason might lean that way, but you have completely missed the boat here. We
make fun of both groups.
If you simply act like a hard ass prick and any attempt to understand how humans actually work outside of the more serious mental illnesses, you can make for that to become a reality. This is, again, taking something far too seriously, even though some people seem to consider it an "anything goes", more chaotic attitude.
These are incoherent sentence fragments; consider revising.
Some people simply KNOW they're illogical, but take great pleasure in simplifying things. The modern ideal of a "laid back" attitude is evident of this school of thought. If you don't take any serious issues seriously, you don't have to understand them either.
Again, I need to know where you got the idea that we don't take any issues seriously.
I'm not saying EVERY Discordian has this attitude, my attitudes are shaped by this forum which is going to be pretty different to most discordians given the fact that it's an organised structure anyway, but a lot do, and I think the wider sphere of influence of Discordianism may be related to this. I wasn't sure where else to post my opinions on this, so you get to put up with my crappy opinions one more time.
PD.com is an organized structure?
Basically being "laid back" is too often an excuse for bullshit anti-intellectualism and "ritualistic", systematic, forced humour.
I see where this is going, because it appears you have posted again…
So, to help you out:
1) The image posted is humorous to us not because we are making fun of Aspergers, but because it is a shorthand way of reminding us about the 30-page thread that was created when you whined about the internet being fascist. We enjoyed making fun of you, and how you tried to use a medical condition as an excuse to be a stubborn jerk who refused to understand any new information that was presented. In short, it's a personal insult. I can understand why
you wouldn't think it was funny.
2) In regards to the "standard behavior" of mocking and insulting you, well… Perhaps you have noticed that we don't do that to everyone on this message board. If we did, then you might have a point. However, if you had clarified and said that when we encounter people we don't like who make false accusations, generalizations, and whine about how we are all assholes, we end up making fun of them by mocking and insulting, well, then you'd be right.
