Author Topic: "If it's not KopyLeft, it's not Discordian"  (Read 14836 times)

Cramulus

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"If it's not KopyLeft, it's not Discordian"
« on: February 16, 2009, 07:23:51 pm »
Discordianism and the concept of KopyLeft go hand in hand. Although just a small part of the counter-culture gestalt, I believe that the Principia Discordia was probably one of the earliest expressions and strongest champions of this idea, which has since seen such concepts as the "Open Source Software" initiative, with endeavors such as the Linux OS. Remember, if it's not KopyLeft, it's not Discordian. This concept is at Discordia's very heart, ye and its spleen, gonads and pineal gland. Or something. I remember stumbling across the Discordian internet site some meatboy had constructed and copyrighted - I laughed and laughed at the sad-arsed bastard. No doubt Eris will accordingly soften him sorely.

         -The Rev. DrJon Swabey, from the intro to the Apocrypha Discordia




How do you guys feel about this? Should all Discordian works be KopyLeft? I like the idea that if I say something sort of cool, somebody else might take it, polish it up, and use it for something really cool. I feel that once an idea leaves your mouth, it's alive in a way you can no longer control.

I think that this notion of this is inherent to Discordia. There's a sort of zen-buddhism implied in Kopyleft. Kopyleft forces a detachment from any territorial stake in your ideas. It forces us to communicate and entertain each other in a way where we have little to personally gain - it's communication for communication's sake. Not for the market, not for the ego, not for the benjamins.

I think the Kopyleft principle is alive and well in this community. For example, we create a lot of our own channels of entertainment. We have a magazine, a radio station (coming soon!), and about a zillion pdfs, meme bombs, and miscellaneous marginalia. None of this would be possible if we weren't comfortable taking, breaking, remixing and replaying each other's work.

I think about the Meme Bomb thread, and how we have probably a half dozen "best of" collections. It's now difficult and unimportant to determine who said what. The vast majority of the meme bombs aren't creditable to a specific author without some dilligent searching. Most commonly, the meme bombs are attributed to the community - an interesting concept, to be sure! Is this ideological socialism? Is our communication better when there aren't any pissing contests about who controls what ideas?

Please note that I'm not trying to start a thread about the merits and flaws of the copyright system, or whether artists should get paid for their work. I'm interested in discussing the notion that Everything Discordian Should Be (K). What's your take on it?


Jasper

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Re: "If it's not KopyLeft, it's not Discordian"
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2009, 07:37:43 pm »
You lost me at "Everything Discordian should".

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: "If it's not KopyLeft, it's not Discordian"
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2009, 07:38:55 pm »
I hate it. Saying "If it's not Kopyleft, it's not Discordian" creates a really rigid dogma that runs completely contrary to the Hodge/Podge principle, and therefore is an anti-Discordian proclamation in itself.

I love Kopyleft, I think it's great. I just hate dogma.
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Re: "If it's not KopyLeft, it's not Discordian"
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2009, 07:46:31 pm »
yeah, I make almost everything I post here and at other discordian-ish sites KopyLeft but I think anyone who tells me that I HAVE to do that to be a REAL TRUE DISCORDIAN can suck the corn out of my asshole.

If other people wanna claim rights on their stuff, that's their business not mine or Discordia's.
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Re: "If it's not KopyLeft, it's not Discordian"
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2009, 07:46:55 pm »
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Off the top of my head, I fond both of those to be rather interesting Discordian works and neither are Kopyleft.

- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

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Cramulus

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Re: "If it's not KopyLeft, it's not Discordian"
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2009, 07:46:55 pm »
The language (or my usage of it) is a bit tangled, so I want to draw a distinction between two usages of the word "should". I'm not saying "should = must" as in "Discordian stuff MUST be Kopyleft". I meant it more in the same way that someone might say "You shouldn't drive drunk." a proscription, not a rule.

Maybe answer this question: I' m writing a Discordian work / composing a Discordian song / drawing a Discordian picture. Should I release it as Kopyleft?


On a separate note, I posit that Steve Jackson's version of the Principia, which is copyrighted, is less Discordian than the practically identical version that is Kopyleft. Yes?

Cramulus

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Re: "If it's not KopyLeft, it's not Discordian"
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2009, 07:50:03 pm »
(I also want to note that my mind isn't made up on the matter. I posted the quote and the above thoughts because I'm still chewing on it.)

bds

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Re: "If it's not KopyLeft, it's not Discordian"
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2009, 07:50:13 pm »
I don't think people object to your idea Cram, it's just the principle of the blanket statement that things SHOULD be something.
However, I would much prefer it if everything was Kopyleft, yes.

Jasper

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Re: "If it's not KopyLeft, it's not Discordian"
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2009, 07:50:27 pm »
If you're selling something that someone else could steal, then (K) is not for you.  Otherwise, go mad with it.

Cainad (dec.)

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Re: "If it's not KopyLeft, it's not Discordian"
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2009, 07:54:18 pm »
I hate it. Saying "If it's not Kopyleft, it's not Discordian" creates a really rigid dogma that runs completely contrary to the Hodge/Podge principle, and therefore is an anti-Discordian proclamation in itself.

I love Kopyleft, I think it's great. I just hate dogma.

Beat me to it. :lulz:


Kopyleft is awesome, and I personally think that copyrighting Discordian stuff is uber-laem. However, there's not much of a need to join Kopyleft and Discordianism at the hip. I'm content with merely mocking and shunning those who try to make Discordianism "theirs," and I'd rather not set up Discordianism as an ideal to be achieved.


I mean, just roll this around in your head:

"That's un-Discordian!"

Sounds kinda gross to me, honestly. It's one step from there to Really Real Discordianism™.


In short, Kopyleft is every bit as cool as you say it is, and it is extremely beneficial to our flavor of Discordia. I'd just rather not make one contingent on the other.



ETA: I know this isn't about Really Real Discordianism™, I was just making an example. Didn't mean to turn the thread into "ZOMG Did you just try to put Discordianism in a box?! FUCK YUO!" We have enough of that already.

Reginald Ret

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Re: "If it's not KopyLeft, it's not Discordian"
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2009, 08:28:11 pm »
Though i personally agree wholeheartedly that Everything Discordian Should Be Kopyleft, I think it would be bad rule for this (or any) community to adopt.
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Re: "If it's not KopyLeft, it's not Discordian"
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2009, 08:32:31 pm »
I think that there are a lot of Discordian works that are copyrighted, and some of their authors don't even know they're Discordian.

If someone sells their copyrighted Discordian work, and it earns them money to make more Discordian art, does the Discordian Society win or lose? What if someone was able to make ten times as much Discordian art over their lifetime than if they were not able to get paid for it?

Eventually it enters the public domain anyway.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Jasper

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Re: "If it's not KopyLeft, it's not Discordian"
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2009, 08:45:29 pm »
I think the general tone here is that a pragmatic approach is superior to an idealistic one. 

Aufenthatt

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Re: "If it's not KopyLeft, it's not Discordian"
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2009, 11:43:14 pm »
Considering that Discordians regect the consept of right and wrong, can it be wrong to make money out of people using Discordian ideas?

So to copyright is not 'un-discordian'?

Jasper

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Re: "If it's not KopyLeft, it's not Discordian"
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2009, 12:11:13 am »
Considering that Discordians regect the consept of right and wrong, can it be wrong to make money out of people using Discordian ideas?

So to copyright is not 'un-discordian'?

Suppose your premise isn't mired or whatever.  Right/Wrong dualism is irrelevant. 

All that assumed, Copywright protections are not opposed to the discordian ideal on principle, but they are probably not in the spirit of the thing.