Author Topic: Help - the truthers almost have me!  (Read 6879 times)

Lies

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Re: Help - the truthers almost have me!
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2009, 04:06:31 pm »
So I started watching Loose Change last night and, as expected, it reeked of classic conspiracy theory, right down to the adenoidal voice of the presenter. I've heard Cain slag off the "truther" movement in general and (iirc) this movie in particular. One problem - and from a layman's pov (I've never looked into any of this) a lot of fucking convincing arguments.

If the documents shown were made up? If the experts opinions were not from real experts? If it wasn't for the fact that most of the people refuting these claims are bloody politicians then maybe I would have a harder time believing this shit but, as it stands, I'm seeing no real holes in their story.

Please to poke some before I become a believer.  :x
You know, theres also this kid that doesn't need food or water and just sits around all day.

Yeah but I have things like Classic Newtonian Physics to refute that one with. Apparently the two towers actually did fall down :lulz:
I'm saying, if you're dumb enough to actually believe loose change, I think you'd be dumb enough to not believe that someone can't hibernate.
- So the New World Order does not actually exist?
- Oh it exists, and how!
Ask the slaves whose labour built the White House;
Ask the slaves of today tied down to sweatshops and brothels to escape hunger;
Ask most women, second class citizens, in a pervasive rape culture;
Ask the non-human creatures who inhabit the planet:
whales, bears, frogs, tuna, bees, slaughtered farm animals;
Ask the natives of the Americas and Australia on whose land
you live today, on whose graves your factories, farms and neighbourhoods stand;
ask any of them this, ask them if the New World Order is true;
they'll tell you plainly: the New World Order… is you!

East Coast Hustle

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Re: Help - the truthers almost have me!
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2009, 04:27:34 pm »
To be fair, When I first heard the attacks being reported they listed the fourth flight (flight 92) as having been shot down.
(which makes sense to me, if they knew the plane was jacked it seems like a plausable solution).
Only later did they change it to the flight was braught down by someone on board.
This always seemed to me to be that the gov was just trying to save face rather then admit they had to shoot down the plane.

that would be a reasonable hypothesis, but nearly everyone on flight 92 made a cell phone call to loved ones informing them of the situation and letting them know that they were going to take the plane and/or force it down rather than let it be used as a weapon. So the government would have to have somehow convinced ALL of them to lie to the rest of the world and say that "yeah, we did get a call from so and so..."

also, IIRC, Todd Beamer's family actually recorded his call to them, including his goodbye and the now-famous "let's roll" quote.
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Re: Help - the truthers almost have me!
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2009, 04:27:34 pm »
I'm saying, if you're dumb enough to actually believe loose change, I think you'd be dumb enough to not believe that someone can't hibernate.

Dude, srsly, let it lie.

1) I don't believe in loose change, op was tongue in cheek - hence the "before I become a believer" part.

2) I'd believe bush did it himself, with his bare hands, before I'd believe that ridiculous shit which you have a thread devoted to already. Pls to keep your hosries the fuck out of my thread.

kthnx
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 04:32:05 pm by P3nT4gR4m »
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Re: Help - the truthers almost have me!
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2009, 04:38:08 pm »
To be fair, When I first heard the attacks being reported they listed the fourth flight (flight 92) as having been shot down.
(which makes sense to me, if they knew the plane was jacked it seems like a plausable solution).
Only later did they change it to the flight was braught down by someone on board.
This always seemed to me to be that the gov was just trying to save face rather then admit they had to shoot down the plane.

that would be a reasonable hypothesis, but nearly everyone on flight 92 made a cell phone call to loved ones informing them of the situation and letting them know that they were going to take the plane and/or force it down rather than let it be used as a weapon. So the government would have to have somehow convinced ALL of them to lie to the rest of the world and say that "yeah, we did get a call from so and so..."

also, IIRC, Todd Beamer's family actually recorded his call to them, including his goodbye and the now-famous "let's roll" quote.


Isn't it possible both scenarios happened?  The passengers attempted to take down the plane themselves, but at -or around- the same time the government shot it out of the sky?

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Re: Help - the truthers almost have me!
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2009, 05:03:51 pm »
I suppose it is. I'm not sure what difference it would make.

also, the plane crashed in a cornfield. there were plenty of civilian witnesses on the scene within minutes and as far as I know, the wreckage of the plane looked exactly like it would if the plane had crashed, as opposed to being blown apart in mid-air.

also also, I can't imagine why anyone would have blamed the feds for shooting that plane down so I see no reason for that particular cover-up.
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Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

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Re: Help - the truthers almost have me!
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2009, 05:07:54 pm »
I'm saying, if you're dumb enough to actually believe loose change, I think you'd be dumb enough to not believe that someone can't hibernate.

Dude, srsly, let it lie.

1) I don't believe in loose change, op was tongue in cheek - hence the "before I become a believer" part.

2) I'd believe bush did it himself, with his bare hands, before I'd believe that ridiculous shit which you have a thread devoted to already. Pls to keep your hosries the fuck out of my thread.

kthnx

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Re: Help - the truthers almost have me!
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2009, 05:39:59 pm »
The conspiracy is actually that the government is behind the Truthers.

Here's the way 9/11 went down:

1) Months in advance, AQ starts planning.
2) At some point US Intel gets wind of the plot, but not the specifics.
3) For whatever reason, (hubris?) neither Clinton or Bush recoginize the seriousness of the situation.
4) The Shit Hits The Towers
5) Unable to admit that it screwed the Pooch, the Bush administration drops a few psyops people off at an Internet Cafe where they start the Truther movement to distract the conspiracy theorists and make any claims about the nature of events appear as crazy conspiracy theories.

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Re: Help - the truthers almost have me!
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2009, 06:14:38 pm »
now THAT is a conspiracy theory I can get behind.
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The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

fomenter

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Re: Help - the truthers almost have me!
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2009, 06:52:16 pm »
The conspiracy is actually that the government is behind the Truthers.

Here's the way 9/11 went down:

1) Months in advance, AQ starts planning.
2) At some point US Intel gets wind of the plot, but not the specifics.
3) For whatever reason, (hubris?) neither Clinton or Bush recoginize the seriousness of the situation.
4) The Shit Hits The Towers
5) Unable to admit that it screwed the Pooch, the Bush administration drops a few psyops people off at an Internet Cafe where they start the Truther movement to distract the conspiracy theorists and make any claims about the nature of events appear as crazy conspiracy theories.


this is the proper use of disinformation, make any conspiracy look so stupid all conspiracy's including what really went down look dumb and easy to dismiss
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Re: Help - the truthers almost have me!
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2009, 06:58:22 pm »
The conspiracy is actually that the government is behind the Truthers.

Here's the way 9/11 went down:

1) Months in advance, AQ starts planning.
2) At some point US Intel gets wind of the plot, but not the specifics.
3) For whatever reason, (hubris?) neither Clinton or Bush recoginize the seriousness of the situation.
4) The Shit Hits The Towers
5) Unable to admit that it screwed the Pooch, the Bush administration drops a few psyops people off at an Internet Cafe where they start the Truther movement to distract the conspiracy theorists and make any claims about the nature of events appear as crazy conspiracy theories.


this is the proper use of disinformation, make any conspiracy look so stupid all conspiracy's including what really went down look dumb and easy to dismiss

Which is why "Everything Is Under Control" should be required reading... along with 'The Prince'. ;-)
- I don't see race. I just see cars going around in a circle.

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Re: Help - the truthers almost have me!
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2009, 07:21:14 pm »

Lies

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Re: Help - the truthers almost have me!
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2009, 12:59:32 am »
I'm saying, if you're dumb enough to actually believe loose change, I think you'd be dumb enough to not believe that someone can't hibernate.

Dude, srsly, let it lie.

1) I don't believe in loose change, op was tongue in cheek - hence the "before I become a believer" part.

2) I'd believe bush did it himself, with his bare hands, before I'd believe that ridiculous shit which you have a thread devoted to already. Pls to keep your hosries the fuck out of my thread.

kthnx
Sorry, I couldn't help but  :pokewithstick:, seriously, I was worried though you might actually be considering joiner the truthers, I needed a verbal equivalent for a slap for you.
- So the New World Order does not actually exist?
- Oh it exists, and how!
Ask the slaves whose labour built the White House;
Ask the slaves of today tied down to sweatshops and brothels to escape hunger;
Ask most women, second class citizens, in a pervasive rape culture;
Ask the non-human creatures who inhabit the planet:
whales, bears, frogs, tuna, bees, slaughtered farm animals;
Ask the natives of the Americas and Australia on whose land
you live today, on whose graves your factories, farms and neighbourhoods stand;
ask any of them this, ask them if the New World Order is true;
they'll tell you plainly: the New World Order… is you!

Faust

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Re: Help - the truthers almost have me!
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2009, 01:18:30 am »
I suppose it is. I'm not sure what difference it would make.

also, the plane crashed in a cornfield. there were plenty of civilian witnesses on the scene within minutes and as far as I know, the wreckage of the plane looked exactly like it would if the plane had crashed, as opposed to being blown apart in mid-air.

also also, I can't imagine why anyone would have blamed the feds for shooting that plane down so I see no reason for that particular cover-up.

I'm not saying I believe it, I just remember it being reported as shot down in the confusion

Faust

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Re: Help - the truthers almost have me!
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2009, 01:21:00 am »
So I started watching Loose Change last night and, as expected, it reeked of classic conspiracy theory, right down to the adenoidal voice of the presenter. I've heard Cain slag off the "truther" movement in general and (iirc) this movie in particular. One problem - and from a layman's pov (I've never looked into any of this) a lot of fucking convincing arguments.

If the documents shown were made up? If the experts opinions were not from real experts? If it wasn't for the fact that most of the people refuting these claims are bloody politicians then maybe I would have a harder time believing this shit but, as it stands, I'm seeing no real holes in their story.

Please to poke some before I become a believer.  :x
You know, theres also this kid that doesn't need food or water and just sits around all day.

Yeah but I have things like Classic Newtonian Physics to refute that one with. Apparently the two towers actually did fall down :lulz:
I'm saying, if you're dumb enough to actually believe loose change, I think you'd be dumb enough to not believe that someone can't hibernate.
Please don't tell me you think hibernation could allow that kid to go without water for a year. Hibernation is a not a lossless energy system.

Lies

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Re: Help - the truthers almost have me!
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2009, 01:25:07 am »
So I started watching Loose Change last night and, as expected, it reeked of classic conspiracy theory, right down to the adenoidal voice of the presenter. I've heard Cain slag off the "truther" movement in general and (iirc) this movie in particular. One problem - and from a layman's pov (I've never looked into any of this) a lot of fucking convincing arguments.

If the documents shown were made up? If the experts opinions were not from real experts? If it wasn't for the fact that most of the people refuting these claims are bloody politicians then maybe I would have a harder time believing this shit but, as it stands, I'm seeing no real holes in their story.

Please to poke some before I become a believer.  :x
You know, theres also this kid that doesn't need food or water and just sits around all day.

Yeah but I have things like Classic Newtonian Physics to refute that one with. Apparently the two towers actually did fall down :lulz:
I'm saying, if you're dumb enough to actually believe loose change, I think you'd be dumb enough to not believe that someone can't hibernate.
Please don't tell me you think hibernation could allow that kid to go without water for a year. Hibernation is a not a lossless energy system.

Once again, let me just make my stance on the whole issue clear: I don't "believe" anything atm in regards to the "buddha boy", I find the story fascinating and want to know what exactly is going on.

Anyway, Pent doesn't want me bring this shit up in his precious thread so I'll leave it at that.
- So the New World Order does not actually exist?
- Oh it exists, and how!
Ask the slaves whose labour built the White House;
Ask the slaves of today tied down to sweatshops and brothels to escape hunger;
Ask most women, second class citizens, in a pervasive rape culture;
Ask the non-human creatures who inhabit the planet:
whales, bears, frogs, tuna, bees, slaughtered farm animals;
Ask the natives of the Americas and Australia on whose land
you live today, on whose graves your factories, farms and neighbourhoods stand;
ask any of them this, ask them if the New World Order is true;
they'll tell you plainly: the New World Order… is you!