Author Topic: ATTN: Roger, what the hell goes through these people's heads?  (Read 5839 times)

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: ATTN: Roger, what the hell goes through these people's heads?
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2009, 07:35:35 pm »
It sounded pretty self-indulgent to me; all the outrage that fat people get medical treatment when they come in with symptoms of a heart attack, and then get sent on their merry way with a new menu (that's what they did with you, right TGRR?) while poor OD girl gets told to sit and wait it out, and then sent for behavioral treatment.

My question is, what the hell are they supposed to do with OD girl? What does OD girl think they SHOULD have done to help her?

As for the nurses deliberately missing her veins to teach her a lesson, I doubt it. I have a brain tumor which means everybody in hospitals feels sorry for me, but I've had some pretty grueling experiences with the nurses missing my veins as well. They just weren't very good at it.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: ATTN: Roger, what the hell goes through these people's heads?
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2009, 07:44:02 pm »
As for the nurses deliberately missing her veins to teach her a lesson, I doubt it.

So do I, but I don't doubt that Nivek truly believes that.  We have loads of unreasonable and incompetent medical practicioners here (and some outright crazy ones), and sometimes it's really hard to tell the difference.

And yeah, there was some self-indulgence in that post, but is that a surprise?  We and the half-generation before us have managed to raise a generation of people that think that's normal.  "You're special.",  "There are no losers.", "Differently-abled.", etc.  Then they hit the real world like a bug hitting a windshield.

Of COURSE they're going to react in a self-indulgent manner.  All the stupid loveburger shit they've been handed in school, etc, has done everything BUT prepare them for the world.  

Now, I know Nivek in real life, and she isn't the way this rant may make her appear.  She's pretty tough, particularly for her generation, so don't let it look like I'm excusing anything, here.  I'll let her make her own case.  I just wanted to point out one thing...When someone is new to Discordia, they bring all manner of awful baggage with them.  I think you're doing the right thing by addressing her post the way you have.  I'm just trying to think of a way to acclimatize people in this position, rather than having them meet the Stark Fist of Reality full force, right off the bat.

I'm not explaining this right.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 07:48:45 pm by The Good Reverend Roger »
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Re: ATTN: Roger, what the hell goes through these people's heads?
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2009, 07:49:49 pm »
Being Truthful without being a dick about it is tough.

However, as the man says...



The Truth Will Set You Free But First It May Make You Uncomfortable.

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: ATTN: Roger, what the hell goes through these people's heads?
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2009, 07:53:45 pm »
Being Truthful without being a dick about it is tough.

However, as the man says...



The Truth Will Set You Free But First It May Make You Uncomfortable.

Oh, no argument.  I wasn't even particularly concerned about Nivek, she has a thick hide.  I was thinking more along the lines of some of the noobs we get.  Where before I was perfectly happy to throw the self-indulgent ones in the dumpster, I am no longer that lazy.  I think it might be a worthwhile project to try to find a deprogramming technique to apply to people when they demonstrate these tendencies.  It would be a challenge, at any rate, given that they've usually had 16-30 years of being told how "special" they are.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: ATTN: Roger, what the hell goes through these people's heads?
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2009, 08:06:30 pm »
I like Nivek. She's smart, she's talented, she's interesting, and it's obvious that in many areas she Gets It. I'm not trying to be a dick, I just didn't really like that rant because it comes across as self-indulgent, IMO. Kinda misses the boat of What's Wrong With the World.

And when things took the "people aren't nice to junkies" turn, I just wanted to say, why should people be nice to junkies? The world is not nice. If a junkie is behaving in a way that is detrimental, why should they be treated differently than someone who's not a junkie? You make yourself a problem, you'll get treated like a problem. 99% of the time junkies only get treated poorly when they are making a problem of themselves, although they are often unaware that they're making a problem of themselves because the drugs impair their perception of appropriate behavior.

That is a separate issue from the quality of treatment facilities or the system we have to get help for junkies, though. 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 08:11:09 pm by Nigel »
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: ATTN: Roger, what the hell goes through these people's heads?
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2009, 09:08:47 pm »
I think the point was that there are a lot of addictions.  Drugs, food, alcohol, danger, stupidity.  Not much you can name that someone isn't addicted to somewhere out there. 

If someone is in need of medical attention, no matter why, they deserve the same respect as any other patient in need of medical attention.  I've seen the way ER staff can treat an OD patient and it isn't pretty.  They treat them like shit as if it is their job to teach the patient a lesson.  I've seen it in more than one hospital so I have to think it is a fairly common practice.

My insane first husband drug me into the ER once and told them I fell down the stairs because I took a handful of pills.  I tried to tell the nurse he'd beat the shit out of me and I hadn't taken a damn thing. They fucking Baker Acted me and put my on the psych ward. It took my parents coming down to the hospital with their lawyer in tow the next day before they would release me.  And yes, it was a nice settlement when we sued!  The divorce cost me an arm and a leg, but it was well worth it!

My point being, I tend to agree, patients deserve to be treated decently no matter WHY they are in the position of being a patient.  It's just another form of discrimination to treat them otherwise. IMO!

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Re: ATTN: Roger, what the hell goes through these people's heads?
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2009, 09:18:29 pm »
I can agree that patients deserve to be treated with equal respect by medical staff. What I don't agree with is that "I took a lot of pills and now I'm REALLLLLY HIGH" should get the same level of attentiveness and treatment as "I'm obese and now I'm experiencing chest pains and shortness of breath", because the first one is something that could, in that situation, be waited out, whereas the second is potentially a death about to take place in the ER.

What I got out of the rant was mostly "The fat guy got priority treatment even though he caused his medical emergency just as much as I did, and it's not fair that drug ODs get sent to inpatient treatment but fatties don't because they're both self-inflicted".
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: ATTN: Roger, what the hell goes through these people's heads?
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2009, 09:21:43 pm »
And, actually, I'm a little unclear on that... I've never heard of an ER making someone go to drug treatment. Referring, yes.

Nivek, were your parents involved in that decision?
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: ATTN: Roger, what the hell goes through these people's heads?
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2009, 09:26:41 pm »
And, actually, I'm a little unclear on that... I've never heard of an ER making someone go to drug treatment. Referring, yes.

Nivek, were your parents involved in that decision?

Arizona has funny laws.

For example, if EMTs feel you aren't in your right head when you don't want to go to the hospital, they'll have some cops beat on you until you shut up and get in the ambulance.

 :)
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

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Re: ATTN: Roger, what the hell goes through these people's heads?
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2009, 09:28:23 pm »
And, actually, I'm a little unclear on that... I've never heard of an ER making someone go to drug treatment. Referring, yes.

Nivek, were your parents involved in that decision?

Arizona has funny laws.

For example, if EMTs feel you aren't in your right head when you don't want to go to the hospital, they'll have some cops beat on you until you shut up and get in the ambulance.

 :)

Inpatient drug treatment is very, very expensive. How does Arizona pay for it?
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: ATTN: Roger, what the hell goes through these people's heads?
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2009, 09:30:21 pm »
And, actually, I'm a little unclear on that... I've never heard of an ER making someone go to drug treatment. Referring, yes.

Nivek, were your parents involved in that decision?

Arizona has funny laws.

For example, if EMTs feel you aren't in your right head when you don't want to go to the hospital, they'll have some cops beat on you until you shut up and get in the ambulance.

 :)

Inpatient drug treatment is very, very expensive. How does Arizona pay for it?

Federal funds.

Oh, and they sic collections agents on you until the end of time.  So not only are you forever forbidden to own firearms or gain a clearance, etc, your credit is also trashed beyond any chance of ever fixing it within a human lifespan.

We fix everyone, down here.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

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Re: ATTN: Roger, what the hell goes through these people's heads?
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2009, 09:33:42 pm »
And, actually, I'm a little unclear on that... I've never heard of an ER making someone go to drug treatment. Referring, yes.

Nivek, were your parents involved in that decision?

Arizona has funny laws.

For example, if EMTs feel you aren't in your right head when you don't want to go to the hospital, they'll have some cops beat on you until you shut up and get in the ambulance.

 :)

Inpatient drug treatment is very, very expensive. How does Arizona pay for it?

Federal funds.

Oh, and they sic collections agents on you until the end of time.  So not only are you forever forbidden to own firearms or gain a clearance, etc, your credit is also trashed beyond any chance of ever fixing it within a human lifespan.

We fix everyone, down here.

Florida is similar with the Baker Act.  Which is why I sued so I wouldn't lose any of my civil rights or my employment bond. 

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Re: ATTN: Roger, what the hell goes through these people's heads?
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2009, 09:34:28 pm »
I'M JUST SAYING THERE ARE SOME GAPING HOLES IN THIS STORY. Like the one where Arizona's ERs are somehow able to independently commit junkies to inpatient treatment at behavioral therapy facilities, and how this is paid for. Because no matter how many junkies you bill for their involuntary inpatient time, you're not going to get a high rate of recompense. And once word got out, every junkie desperate to get clean would be taking too many pills and heading to the ER.

And I still want to know what Nivek WANTED them to have done, instead of telling her to wait it out, and sending her to rehab. Tucked her into a nice cozy bed and read her a story?
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: ATTN: Roger, what the hell goes through these people's heads?
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2009, 09:34:59 pm »
And, actually, I'm a little unclear on that... I've never heard of an ER making someone go to drug treatment. Referring, yes.

Nivek, were your parents involved in that decision?

Arizona has funny laws.

For example, if EMTs feel you aren't in your right head when you don't want to go to the hospital, they'll have some cops beat on you until you shut up and get in the ambulance.

 :)

Inpatient drug treatment is very, very expensive. How does Arizona pay for it?

Federal funds.

Oh, and they sic collections agents on you until the end of time.  So not only are you forever forbidden to own firearms or gain a clearance, etc, your credit is also trashed beyond any chance of ever fixing it within a human lifespan.

We fix everyone, down here.

Florida is similar with the Baker Act.  Which is why I sued so I wouldn't lose any of my civil rights or my employment bond. 

America, land of the free.  Unless you get sick, or fall afoul of our Byzantine legal system.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

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Re: ATTN: Roger, what the hell goes through these people's heads?
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2009, 09:35:38 pm »
Inpatient drug treatment is very, very expensive. How does Arizona pay for it?

Federal funds.

Oh, and they sic collections agents on you until the end of time.  So not only are you forever forbidden to own firearms or gain a clearance, etc, your credit is also trashed beyond any chance of ever fixing it within a human lifespan.

We fix everyone, down here.

Not buying it, Roger.

Where are these "federal funds" for Oregon?

Too many implausible explanations, not enough fact.

You can fix bad credit in seven years, ask me how.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”