Author Topic: Discordianism as Perfect Nihilism  (Read 13086 times)

chimes

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Re: Discordianism as Perfect Nihilism
« Reply #60 on: December 17, 2010, 04:57:39 pm »

Yes, but they can make themselves that leader.



What part of "they want a leader to follow" are you not understanding?

I do understand, but I still maintain they can follow themselves.

Then you still don't understand.

Okay.  :roll:
Then explain it.
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Re: Discordianism as Perfect Nihilism
« Reply #61 on: December 17, 2010, 05:03:47 pm »
And Cuddlefish (dimo, right?), I'm not so sure we need the religious/church framework. I certainly don't want it.

Here's the thing, I'm speaking in general terms. I don't need it either (or do I? Do you, really?), but I'm aware that I am an exception. The thing is, in general, most people are incapable of determining their own morals (among other things) without an institution to tell them how to "get shit dione." (Hell, most people can't make up their mind about their own personal lives without a Jeebus holding their hand). Not their fault, and maybe they're not aware of it, but it is the case. Think of meta-religions as a step up from a tricycle (revealed religion) to a regular bicycle with training wheels (meta-religion). Once people can get the feel for it, you can take off the training wheels ("moral-self sufficiency" and individual and collective "self-assigned purpose"). And, hell, we work on that hard enough, we might be able to ride the cosmic unicycle (perfect balance).
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chimes

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Re: Discordianism as Perfect Nihilism
« Reply #62 on: December 17, 2010, 05:09:40 pm »
And Cuddlefish (dimo, right?), I'm not so sure we need the religious/church framework. I certainly don't want it.

Here's the thing, I'm speaking in general terms. I don't need it either (or do I? Do you, really?), but I'm aware that I am an exception. The thing is, in general, most people are incapable of determining their own morals (among other things) without an institution to tell them how to "get shit dione." (Hell, most people can't make up their mind about their own personal lives without a Jeebus holding their hand). Not their fault, and maybe they're not aware of it, but it is the case. Think of meta-religions as a step up from a tricycle (revealed religion) to a regular bicycle with training wheels (meta-religion). Once people can get the feel for it, you can take off the training wheels ("moral-self sufficiency" and individual and collective "self-assigned purpose"). And, hell, we work on that hard enough, we might be able to ride the cosmic unicycle (perfect balance).

Okay, fair enough. In society as a whole the transitional meta-church could be a necessary step.
And  :thumb: for the stretched metaphor.
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Re: Discordianism as Perfect Nihilism
« Reply #63 on: December 17, 2010, 05:10:36 pm »

Yes, but they can make themselves that leader.



What part of "they want a leader to follow" are you not understanding?

I do understand, but I still maintain they can follow themselves.

Then you still don't understand.

Okay.  :roll:
Then explain it.
Most people demand a leader. Any leader. They will refuse to be the one having to make the decisions. They will, however, be happy to bitch about the decisions that others have made. People have forgotten how to accept responsibility and how to think for themselves.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 05:13:26 pm by Charley Brown »

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Re: Discordianism as Perfect Nihilism
« Reply #64 on: December 17, 2010, 05:11:59 pm »
The religious structure of Discordia does not serve the same (exact) purpose as the religious structure of other orgs.

There's a fine line between "I don't need a religious institution" and "I don't need social contacts with people who share my paradigm".
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chimes

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Re: Discordianism as Perfect Nihilism
« Reply #65 on: December 17, 2010, 05:17:40 pm »

Yes, but they can make themselves that leader.



What part of "they want a leader to follow" are you not understanding?

I do understand, but I still maintain they can follow themselves.

Then you still don't understand.

Okay.  :roll:
Then explain it.

Most people demand a leader. Any leader. They will refuse to be the one having to make the decisions. They will, however, be happy to bitch about the decisions that others have made. People have forgotten how to accept responsibility and how to think for themselves.

Okay, people behave that way, but is that from nature or nurture? It's probably reinforced by our biology, but not created by it.

However, if you're talking about that being the way our society raises people, and that working pragmatically with the society we live in, we need leaders, I'm not sure I can disagree (not because I agree, but because I have no evidence for my side). But I'm sure that many here (you too) would agree that it's possible to lead oneself, as we are examples in some sense.

I hope I'm making sense.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 05:19:12 pm by Epimetheus »
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Re: Discordianism as Perfect Nihilism
« Reply #66 on: December 17, 2010, 05:21:06 pm »
The thing is, whether it's natural or imprinted doesn't matter. It's there.

The goal would be to replace the imprint with a better one, making gradual changes over time. This is something that's been a learned behavior since the dawn of man, it will take a long time to get that spot out.
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Re: Discordianism as Perfect Nihilism
« Reply #67 on: December 17, 2010, 05:23:03 pm »
The thing is, whether it's natural or imprinted doesn't matter. It's there.

The goal would be to replace the imprint with a better one, making gradual changes over time. This is something that's been a learned behavior since the dawn of man, it will take a long time to get that spot out.

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Re: Discordianism as Perfect Nihilism
« Reply #68 on: December 17, 2010, 05:26:55 pm »
The thing is, whether it's natural or imprinted doesn't matter. It's there.

The goal would be to replace the imprint with a better one, making gradual changes over time. This is something that's been a learned behavior since the dawn of man, it will take a long time to get that spot out.

Yeah. (Unless this breakdown Roger predicts goes a certain way...)
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Re: Discordianism as Perfect Nihilism
« Reply #69 on: December 17, 2010, 05:27:30 pm »
Though, while I am no expert, I would be willing to postulate that, outside of the desire to eat, sleep, and fuck, it's ALL imprinting. And, if that were the case, our potential for change would be astronomical.
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Re: Discordianism as Perfect Nihilism
« Reply #70 on: December 17, 2010, 05:28:16 pm »
Okay, people behave that way, but is that from nature or nurture? It's probably reinforced by our biology, but not created by it.

Humans are pack animals.  Their survival depends on working together in groups.  For millions of years, we have naturally fallen into the pack structure of an alpha male heirarchy.  You can't negate this simply by saying it shouldn't be so.


For a real-world example, go to any group or organization that claims they don't have "leaders" and that "everyone is equal".  After the smoke and mirrors go away, the real leaders are obvious.
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Re: Discordianism as Perfect Nihilism
« Reply #71 on: December 17, 2010, 05:30:12 pm »
For a real-world example, go to any group or organization that claims they don't have "leaders" and that "everyone is equal".  After the smoke and mirrors go away, the real leaders are obvious.

Could it be true? Is LMNO the secret leader of the Illuminati?!?!?  :fnord: :tinfoilhat:
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Re: Discordianism as Perfect Nihilism
« Reply #72 on: December 17, 2010, 05:31:11 pm »
I can't believe it took you that long to figure it out.
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chimes

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Re: Discordianism as Perfect Nihilism
« Reply #73 on: December 17, 2010, 05:33:50 pm »
I'll take a break and think about this. I don't disagree with what you've said, but I still feel that a person can be their own leader. I'm simply not yet ready to concede the point.

For a real-world example, go to any group or organization that claims they don't have "leaders" and that "everyone is equal".  After the smoke and mirrors go away, the real leaders are obvious.

Could it be true? Is LMNO the secret leader of the Illuminati?!?!?  :fnord: :tinfoilhat:

 :lol:
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Re: Discordianism as Perfect Nihilism
« Reply #74 on: December 17, 2010, 05:34:42 pm »
I can't believe it took you that long to figure it out.

Not my fault. I thought you'd be... I dunno... bigger. And more mysikal
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