Author Topic: About Chaos, and the illusions of Order and Disorder  (Read 9392 times)

Hoopla

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Re: About Chaos, and the illusions of Order and Disorder
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2010, 06:36:29 pm »
yeah - personally I think that if we were living in total fist pumping anarchy, the Golden Apple Corps would be building bridges and governments.



I have never considered this before, and I love it.  It makes so much sense.  I'm sure this has been obvious to pretty much everyone else all along, but I tend to be rather slow... and it takes away the slightly negative connotations that I sometimes have small problems with in Discordianism.  Not often, mind you, but sometimes.
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Cain

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Re: About Chaos, and the illusions of Order and Disorder
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2010, 06:36:37 pm »
I know I would.  But I'm contrarian like that.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: About Chaos, and the illusions of Order and Disorder
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2010, 06:37:58 pm »
When I say Chaos I am talking about Chaos as used in Greek Mythology.

Edith Hamilton:

“First there was chaos, the vast immeasurable abyss, outrageous as a sea, dark, wasteful, and wild... From the formless confusion of Chaos, brooded over by unbroken darkness came three children; into this shapeless nothing they were thrown. Erebus, which is the unfathomable depth where death dwells and his two sisters, Nyx, or night, and Gaea, the earth. In the whole universe there was nothing else; all was black, empty, silent, endless."

Chaos is the initial state of things, how they exist pre-thought. What they look like when they're off-stage. Chaos is the state of the unknowable future.

Eris is our patroness because deep down I want to live in a balanced world, and there's too much Order right now. Eris wants us to build up the order until there's a breaking point, called Aftermath, and the cycle returns to the season of Chaos.

To me, Eris is the Goddess of Chaos because she reveals that order and disorder are both illusion. She prefers Disorder right now, again, because we live in Orderville. But deep down she wants balance - hence the symbol of the Sacred Chao.

This is an interesting idea Cram... let me see if I understand you correctly. 

I am getting this:  Eris is the goddess of, and personification of STRIFE.  Strife is dependent on the circumstances on which it occurs in, so in a mostly ordered society, such as we have now, "strife" exhibits its behaviour as disorder.  But, in a society which was primarily disorderly, she would exhibit "strife" as order.

Am I reading you right?

I think that's a good way to interpret it if nothing else ;-)
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Hoopla

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Re: About Chaos, and the illusions of Order and Disorder
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2010, 06:38:59 pm »
I know I would.  But I'm contrarian like that.

And I salute you.
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." -Bob Dylan?

"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman

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Re: About Chaos, and the illusions of Order and Disorder
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2010, 08:37:40 pm »
I know I would.  But I'm contrarian like that.

And I salute you.

Hear, hear!

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: About Chaos, and the illusions of Order and Disorder
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2010, 08:46:54 pm »
yeah - personally I think that if we were living in total fist pumping anarchy, the Golden Apple Corps would be building bridges and governments.



I have never considered this before, and I love it.  It makes so much sense.  I'm sure this has been obvious to pretty much everyone else all along, but I tend to be rather slow... and it takes away the slightly negative connotations that I sometimes have small problems with in Discordianism.  Not often, mind you, but sometimes.

What negative connotations?
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Hoopla

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Re: About Chaos, and the illusions of Order and Disorder
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2010, 08:53:08 pm »
yeah - personally I think that if we were living in total fist pumping anarchy, the Golden Apple Corps would be building bridges and governments.



I have never considered this before, and I love it.  It makes so much sense.  I'm sure this has been obvious to pretty much everyone else all along, but I tend to be rather slow... and it takes away the slightly negative connotations that I sometimes have small problems with in Discordianism.  Not often, mind you, but sometimes.

What negative connotations?

I didn't word that well really, but sometimes I worry that some people become Discordians simply to give an excuse to their asshole ways...
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." -Bob Dylan?

"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: About Chaos, and the illusions of Order and Disorder
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2010, 08:55:23 pm »
yeah - personally I think that if we were living in total fist pumping anarchy, the Golden Apple Corps would be building bridges and governments.



I have never considered this before, and I love it.  It makes so much sense.  I'm sure this has been obvious to pretty much everyone else all along, but I tend to be rather slow... and it takes away the slightly negative connotations that I sometimes have small problems with in Discordianism.  Not often, mind you, but sometimes.

What negative connotations?

I didn't word that well really, but sometimes I worry that some people become Discordians simply to give an excuse to their asshole ways...

With me it was just a happy coincidence. :)
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Hoopla

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Re: About Chaos, and the illusions of Order and Disorder
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2010, 08:56:50 pm »
 :lol:  Me too.
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." -Bob Dylan?

"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman

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Re: About Chaos, and the illusions of Order and Disorder
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2010, 10:33:40 pm »
I really dislike being asked to explain fairly simple concepts that can easily be looked up on the internet.

And then misunderstood.

That's great.
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Re: About Chaos, and the illusions of Order and Disorder
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2010, 10:34:01 pm »
Have I mentioned how much I hate all of you?
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Hoopla

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Re: About Chaos, and the illusions of Order and Disorder
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2010, 10:43:22 pm »
Have I mentioned how much I hate all of you?

Hey, what did I do?

I love ya Nigel, even when yer cranky.
"Soon, all of us will have special names." -Professor Brian O'Blivion

"Now's not the time to get silly, so wear your big boots and jump on the garbage clowns." -Bob Dylan?

"I contradict myself?  Very well then, I contradict myself; I am large - I contain multitudes."  -Walt Whitman

Cainad (dec.)

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Re: About Chaos, and the illusions of Order and Disorder
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2010, 10:45:48 pm »
Looking up mathematical definitions of chaos on the internet reveals stuff like what 000 posted. It's all talk about how "chaotic" systems are ones in which arbitrarily small changes in the initial conditions yield large changes in the end results.

Now, forgive me for being a retarded puny-minded twatfaced shitstain on the collective human consciousness, but that doesn't exactly sound like what some Discordians talk about when they say "Everything is Chaos." Maybe once you've gotten the stick out of your butt you'll deign to do us the inimitable favor of telling us simpering turdbuglaring douchbag idiot fools where you see the connections that we ought to be able to see if we weren't so incredibly fucking stupid and misinformed.


If nothing else this thread has prompted me to spend some time reading up on chaos theory so I can at least have an educated layman's understanding of it.

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Re: About Chaos, and the illusions of Order and Disorder
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2010, 12:20:21 am »
When I say Chaos I am talking about Chaos as used in Greek Mythology.

Edith Hamilton:

“First there was chaos, the vast immeasurable abyss, outrageous as a sea, dark, wasteful, and wild... From the formless confusion of Chaos, brooded over by unbroken darkness came three children; into this shapeless nothing they were thrown. Erebus, which is the unfathomable depth where death dwells and his two sisters, Nyx, or night, and Gaea, the earth. In the whole universe there was nothing else; all was black, empty, silent, endless."

Chaos is the initial state of things, how they exist pre-thought. What they look like when they're off-stage. Chaos is the state of the unknowable future.

Eris is our patroness because deep down I want to live in a balanced world, and there's too much Order right now. Eris wants us to build up the order until there's a breaking point, called Aftermath, and the cycle returns to the season of Chaos.

To me, Eris is the Goddess of Chaos because she reveals that order and disorder are both illusion. She prefers Disorder right now, again, because we live in Orderville. But deep down she wants balance - hence the symbol of the Sacred Chao.

yeah - personally I think that if we were living in total fist pumping anarchy, the Golden Apple Corps would be building bridges and governments.



I have never considered this before, and I love it.  It makes so much sense.  I'm sure this has been obvious to pretty much everyone else all along, but I tend to be rather slow... and it takes away the slightly negative connotations that I sometimes have small problems with in Discordianism.  Not often, mind you, but sometimes.

I agree with the above posts.This is a novel, useful way of looking at things.
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Halfbaked1

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Re: About Chaos, and the illusions of Order and Disorder
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2010, 05:45:51 am »
Have I mentioned how much I hate all of you?

Egads, I thought it was TGRR for a second.

But anyway, It makes perfect sense that Discordians would be the opposite of whatever the norm was.  not because we are contrary, though we are it isn't the only reason, but because like was said we seek balance in this world and the only way to do that is by opposing the status quo.  Still, what happens if we ever achieved a balance?  Not that I really think that such a thing is possible, but what if we, the monkeys i mean, actually managed to pull it off?