Author Topic: Thoughts on Eris?  (Read 11772 times)

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: Thoughts on Eris?
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2010, 03:20:18 pm »
Eris is a black clad blood soaked goddess of war, destruction, strife, and discord.

By that descriptions, no one would be interested in her except psychopaths.

Well if you want to take the ancient Greeks at their word when describing her. Wasn't the quote that the ancient Greeks weren't to be trusted with these kind of things.

This. They didn't even know about the Law of Fives!

Sounds sorta like the Christian switch from the vengeful YHWH to the new testament god of love.

That was just a PR stunt, like switching from "War on Terror" to "Global Struggle Against Violent Extremism." It didn't actually change anything. Eris, on the other hand, really did reform, because she didn't know about weed until the 1950's.
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Re: Thoughts on Eris?
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2010, 04:12:01 pm »
Eris is a black clad blood soaked goddess of war, destruction, strife, and discord.

By that descriptions, no one would be interested in her except psychopaths.

Well if you want to take the ancient Greeks at their word when describing her. Wasn't the quote that the ancient Greeks weren't to be trusted with these kind of things.

This. They didn't even know about the Law of Fives!

Sounds sorta like the Christian switch from the vengeful YHWH to the new testament god of love.

uh I'm not entirely sure what you are on about?

Because there is of course no such thing as "the Christian switch" but rather a complicated series of schisms and divisions spread out over many centuries, and continents.

And if you are referring to that, you must be painting with an incredibly broad "sorta" brush. So broad, it's kinda meaningless to make comparisons.

I just realized you might have been trying to talk exclusively about the difference between god in the OT and the NT. But if you call that "the Christian switch" then I think you are conveniently ignoring gigantic chunks of Christian history as well as the meaning of Christianity worldwide today, most of which doesn't really consider it a switch, but have wildly varying explanations to account for the differences between the two books.


However, assuming that this alleged switch must have caused no end of discord and strife, it is indeed sorta like Eris.
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tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: Thoughts on Eris?
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2010, 05:10:17 pm »
Eris is a black clad blood soaked goddess of war, destruction, strife, and discord.

By that descriptions, no one would be interested in her except psychopaths.

Well if you want to take the ancient Greeks at their word when describing her. Wasn't the quote that the ancient Greeks weren't to be trusted with these kind of things.

This. They didn't even know about the Law of Fives!

Sounds sorta like the Christian switch from the vengeful YHWH to the new testament god of love.

uh I'm not entirely sure what you are on about?

Because there is of course no such thing as "the Christian switch" but rather a complicated series of schisms and divisions spread out over many centuries, and continents.

And if you are referring to that, you must be painting with an incredibly broad "sorta" brush. So broad, it's kinda meaningless to make comparisons.

I just realized you might have been trying to talk exclusively about the difference between god in the OT and the NT. But if you call that "the Christian switch" then I think you are conveniently ignoring gigantic chunks of Christian history as well as the meaning of Christianity worldwide today, most of which doesn't really consider it a switch, but have wildly varying explanations to account for the differences between the two books.


However, assuming that this alleged switch must have caused no end of discord and strife, it is indeed sorta like Eris.

From a perspective "chrooted"  into christian theology, the difference between the God of Wrath to the God of Love came about when Jesus fulfilled the Abrahamic Covenant by being the only person to ever perfectly follow the Mosaic Law without exception, thus becoming the person with whom God formed a new covenant, referred to by Christians as the Covenant of Grace. Under the Abrahamic Covenant and the old Law, punishment for sin was swift and harsh, either to be carried out by Hebrew priests and judges or more rarely by God himself; under the Covenant of Grace, punishment for sin is spiritual rather than political, and stayed until death.

That shift is what Kai was referring to.

In practice, of course, Christians are approximately equivalent to the Jewish Law when it comes to being dicks about "sin."
« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 05:13:12 pm by vexati0n »
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tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: Thoughts on Eris?
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2010, 05:11:43 pm »
DOUBLE POST TO APOLOGIZE FOR JACKING A THREAD ABOUT ERIS AND TURNING IT INTO CHRISTIAN THEOLOGICAL DISCUSSION.

and to re-jack:

Eris is the scent of an elusive woman which, when followed, guides you through terrible events and unbearable hardship. In a lulzy kind of way.
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Re: Thoughts on Eris?
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2010, 05:49:17 pm »
DOUBLE POST TO APOLOGIZE FOR JACKING A THREAD ABOUT ERIS AND TURNING IT INTO CHRISTIAN THEOLOGICAL DISCUSSION.

Yeah, never mind that, I just could have left it at "christians are a varied bunch".

The point is, that the (modern) Discordian concept of Eris is not necessarily the same evil crone as She was to the ancient Greeks.
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tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: Thoughts on Eris?
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2010, 05:55:40 pm »
Ancient people had stronger stomachs.
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Re: Thoughts on Eris?
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2010, 11:38:40 pm »
Ancient people had stronger stomachs.

I think that they just had different stomachs. Its kinda natural for the views of a particular deity to evolve over time, and Greek gods are no exception to that. Some people worship Zeus but they don't expect him to come down and hump their daughter. Maybe he and Hera went to marriage counseling.  :lulz:

As far as Eris goes, even to an ancient Greek, she takes on a different light when viewed from a different angle. For example, she can be seen as blameless for the Trojan War. It's the pettiness of the three goddesses that lead to that, Aphrodite's careless offer, and Paris' poor judgment that led to that. Eris can be seen as a noble figure in that myth, since she is exposing the ugliness and narcissism in 3 respected goddesses through her prank.
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Re: Thoughts on Eris?
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2010, 12:03:53 am »
As far as Eris goes, even to an ancient Greek, she takes on a different light when viewed from a different angle. For example, she can be seen as blameless for the Trojan War. It's the pettiness of the three goddesses that lead to that, Aphrodite's careless offer, and Paris' poor judgment that led to that. Eris can be seen as a noble figure in that myth, since she is exposing the ugliness and narcissism in 3 respected goddesses through her prank.

This. Eris did in deed cast the apple, knowing full well it would lead to an argument. However, it was not her, but the other goddesses who involved mortals into the affair in the first place. Blaming Aphrodite for the war is much more appropriate.

However, one must remember that the gods of the Ancient Greeks cared little for mortals in general, as demonstrated by the fact that woman was created as a punishment for man after Prometheus gifted them with fire, despite "man" having no active part in the "theft" of the fire, as I recall.

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Re: Thoughts on Eris?
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2010, 12:38:04 am »
BELLONA

Real Name: Eris
Identity/Class: Olympian god
Occupation: Goddess of strife and discord
Group Membership: Olympus Group, Olympian gods

Affiliations: Arachne, Argus, Hera, Hephaestus, Huntsman, Lamia, Typhon;
Employed the Centaurion; formerly sought advice from Sybilla

Enemies (Entertainments): Athena, Avengers (Amadeus Cho, Quicksilver, Spider-Man (Parker), Spider-Woman (Drew), USAgent, Wasp (Pym), Wolverine (Logan/Howlett) ), Hebe, Kyllian, Zeus

Known Relatives: Zeus (father), Hera (mother); Ares, Hephaestus (brothers), Eileithyia, Hebe (sisters), Hercules, Apollo, Hermes, Dionysus (half-brothers), Artemis, Athena, Venus, Persephone (half-sisters), Neptune, Pluto (uncles), Demeter, Vesta (aunts), Asclepius, Cupid, Janus, Deimos, Phobos (nephews), Harmonia (niece), Triton, Rhode, Benthescyme, Neptunia , Arion, Pomona, Consus, Vertumnus (cousins)
 
Aliases: Enyo, Discord, Discordia

Base of Operations: Olympus, possibly the Areopagus (Ares' retreat)

First Appearance: Doctor Strange III#54 (June, 1993)

Powers/Abilities: Bellona possesses the conventional attributes of the Olympian gods such as superhuman strength (at least Class 25), stamina, resistance to injury, an enchanted longevity and vitality.

History: (Greek Myth)- Bellona is the daughter of the Zeus, Ruler of the Olympian gods, and his wife, Hera ( :lulz:). According to a much earlier account, she was actually the daughter of the ancient primeval earth-gods Erebus and Nox, but this maybe erroneous, or just an earlier incarnation of the goddess(:fnord:).

    Better known as Discord or Eris, Bellona often entered into the schemes and plans of her older brother Ares to ignite the dissension that often lead to war and she might have at one time been his wife following his affairs with other goddesses and mortal women, mortals who were quite often the wives of his generals and followers. Possibly as a way to cause dissension between gods and mortals, she stole three apples from the garden the Hesperides guarded for Hera and had them engraved with the words, “For the Fairest.” She then tossed them among the guests attending the marriage of King Peleus of Aegina to the goddess Thetis. Hera, Athena and Aphrodite then tried to claim the apples in the dispute that triggered the Trojan War. Her activity after that event is unrecorded, but after the war, several Trojan refugees lead by Dardanian prince Aeneas conquered the area upon Rome was built on. During the Roman Empire, Bellona was worshipped as Discord, one of their most important goddesses which may have been part of her long-term schemes.




(Doctor Strange III#54/2 (fb) - BTS) - For centuries, Bellona prepared her champion, the Centaurion to fight on her behalf.

(Doctor Strange III#54/2, [55/2], 56/2) - Bored after a long period of inactivity in Mt. Olympus, Bellona took a swooping hawk as an omen from Sybilla and went to see the prophetess. She hoped that she might find a challenge that would allow her to surpass Ares, especially as he had been faring poorly against Thor, of late. Sybilla showed Bellona an image of Kyllian, who was a host of the power of a trio of Celtic Gods, against whom some of the Olympian Gods held some enmity. She thus sent the Centaurion to Earth to slay Kyllian. However, the power of the trio of gods empowering Kyllian proved too much for the Centaurion, and Kyllian eventually overcame him.
    Bellona came to Earth to check on her champion and was surprised to see him defeated. Realizing that she had made a mistake in sending a mere demi-god, Bellona opened a portal (via the Salts of Skartekis) to return to Olympus. Kyllian grabbed her arm and tried to question her, but she backhanded him, chastising him for laying his hands on an Olympian. When he stood up to her challenge, she realized that perhaps he might be a better pawn or ally than an opponent. Telling him that their struggles were not finished, she vanished back to Olympus.
    Bellona confronted Sybilla, who confessed that she had known that Kyllian would present a greater challenge than Bellona had anticipated. Angered, Bellona refused to view Sybilla's next vision, which showed Kyllian and Bellona in a major liplock.



(Incredible Hercules#138) - Eris was among Hera's legions that fought the Avengers at Olympus Group Tower.

(Incredible Hercules#139) - Eris concentrated on USAgent, who wasn't willing to fight a woman at first. She scratched him, psychically shattered his belief system and then tried to cut him in pieces with her sword.

(Incredible Hercules#140) - Her sword and USAgent's shield vanished due to Continuum using the matter to create a new Earth.

(Incredible Hercules#141) - Wasp, in giant form, kicked down Eris to help USAgent.

Comments: Adapted by Geoff Isherwood.

Nox, whom some references count as mother of Bellona, has an entry here.

Bellona (Discord) is possibly the closest counterpart in the Olympian Pantheon to a trickster-god. Others include the Asgardian Loki, the Mexican god
Tezcatlipoca, the Native American Coyote also known as Nanabozho and the Celtic Spirit Bres.


 :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:
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Re: Thoughts on Eris?
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2010, 12:43:42 am »
http://www.mythindex.com/roman-mythology/B/Bellona.html

The goddess of war among the Romans. It is very probable that originally Bellona was a Sabine divinity whose worship was carried to Rome by the Sabine settlers. She is frequently mentioned by the Roman poets as the companion of Mars, or even as his sister or his wife. Virgil describes her as armed with a bloody scourge. (Virg. Aen. viii. 703; Lucan, Phars. vii. 569; Horat. Sat.  ii. 3. 223.) The main object for which Bellena was worshipped and invoked, was to grant a warlike spirit and enthusiasm which no enemy could resist; and it was for this reason, for she had been worshipped at Rome from early times (Liv. viii. 9), that in B. C. 296, during the war against the Samnites, Appius Claudius the Blind vowed the first temple of Bellona, which was accordingly erected in the Campus Martins close by the Circus Flaminius. (Liv. x. 19; Ov. Fast. vi. 201, &c.) This temple subsequently became of great political importance, for in it the senate assembled to give audience to foreign ambassadors, whom it was not thought proper to admit into the city, to generals who returned from a campaign for which they claimed the honour of a triumph, and on other occasions. (Liv. xxviii. 9, xxx. 21; Dict. of Ant. s.v. Legatus). In front of the entrance to the temple there stood a pillar, which served for making the symbolical declarations of war; for the area of the temple was regarded as a symbolical representation of the enemies' country, and the pillar as that of the frontier, and the declaration of war was made by launching a spear over the pillar. This ceremony, so long as the Roman dominion was of small extent, had been performed on the actual frontier of the enemy's country. (Ov. Fast. vi. 205, &c.; Serv. ad Aen. ix. 53; Liv. i. 32; Dict. of Ant. s. v. Fetiales.) The priests of Bellona were called Bellonarii, and when they offered sacrifices to her, they had to wound their own arms or legs, and either to offer up the blood or drink it themselves, in order to become inspired with a warlike enthusiasm. This sacrifice, which was afterwards softened down into a mere symbolic act, took place on the 24th of March, which day was called dies sanguinisfor this reason. (Lucan, i. 565; Martial, xii. 57; Tertull. Apology. 9; Lactant. i. 21.)
-----------------------------------

You had to throw a spear at Eris' Temple to declare WAR in the Roman Senate. :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: :lulz:


Nowadays, we simply recommend not praying (see "On Prayer", Principia Discordia).
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Re: Thoughts on Eris?
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2010, 01:45:38 am »
I conceptualize Eris as a troll archetype but especially of theology.

A self-inflicted one by the woo-woo riddled ancients and theist Discordians, and an other-inflicted one by apathiest Discordians.
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Re: Thoughts on Eris?
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2010, 03:19:01 am »
History: (Greek Myth)- Bellona is the daughter of the Zeus, Ruler of the Olympian gods, and his wife, Hera ( :lulz:).

so, in other words--if my memory of Greek mythology serves me correctly--she's the product of inbreeding.
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Re: Thoughts on Eris?
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2010, 03:27:02 am »
History: (Greek Myth)- Bellona is the daughter of the Zeus, Ruler of the Olympian gods, and his wife, Hera ( :lulz:).

so, in other words--if my memory of Greek mythology serves me correctly--she's the product of inbreeding.

Almost every Greek deity is the product of inbreeding. It started with Ouranus and Gaia. They begot Kronos, his "wife" Rhea, and the the other Titans, Cyclopes, and 100 Handers. Kronos and Rhea had Zeus, Hera, Hestia, Demeter, Poseidon, and Hades. Zeus and Hera had Ares, Eris (in some versions), and one or two I am forgetting.  Zeus and Demeter had Persephone (who later "married", her double uncle Hades). And that's how it goes. Most ancient divine genealogies involve a significant degree of inbreeding because of lack of options.

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Re: Thoughts on Eris?
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2010, 03:39:06 am »
Eris is a black clad blood soaked goddess of war, destruction, strife, and discord.

By that descriptions, no one would be interested in her except psychopaths.

Well if you want to take the ancient Greeks at their word when describing her. Wasn't the quote that the ancient Greeks weren't to be trusted with these kind of things.

This. They didn't even know about the Law of Fives!

Sounds sorta like the Christian switch from the vengeful YHWH to the new testament god of love.

That was just a PR stunt, like switching from "War on Terror" to "Global Struggle Against Violent Extremism." It didn't actually change anything. Eris, on the other hand, really did reform, because she didn't know about weed until the 1950's.

I prefer the Gnostic version of things where the God of the old testament and the "Father" God of the new testament are completely different deities and Jesus came to save us from the evil God of the old testament.
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Re: Thoughts on Eris?
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2010, 11:34:26 am »
Ancient people had stronger stomachs.

I think that they just had different stomachs.

Well, they have to, right?

If they had the same stomachs as us they'd have to have transdimensional intestines and timetravel digestion.
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