Author Topic: #'s on the Teaparty  (Read 5637 times)

Disco Pickle

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Re: #'s on the Teaparty
« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2010, 03:26:10 am »
No, they are there to make more profit than the year before for the shareholders.  If you make a billions dollars, every year without fail, the stock will never go up.  You have to actually increase the profits.

that can be accomplished in several ways.

innovation that leads to a more desired product that consumers are willing to pay more money for than last year, compensating for the cost in R&D investment that the company made. (whether that product turns out to be shit or not is not part of this discussion)

artificial inflation of the currency, giving the impression of income growth relative to prices, allowing more investment and creating paper investment bubbles.  (the late 90's silicon valley bubble is a good example)

driving your own market, forcing (or seriously encouraging) consumers to buy the latest and greatest of your products because you're just going to stop supporting the OLD stuff your company made.  A case could be made against computer software and hardware manufactures for this very thing.
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Demolition_Squid

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Re: #'s on the Teaparty
« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2010, 10:29:12 am »
Quote from: The Dancing Pickle
Keynes probably didn't anticipate this level of debt, either:

The important figure there is the 'debt as a fraction of GDP' one, not the raw numbers. Debt as a fraction of GDP spikes highest during, before, and just after WW2. Which was exactly when Keynes was writing, and when he was arguing most venomously with the American government about why they should bail out the UK and delay claiming on UK war debt because the alternative was economic catastrophe. So, he was certainly aware of these levels of debt.

I'm not an economist, but Keynes' ideas have always made a lot of sense to me in the classes I have encountered him, and I think he did, in fact, anticipate exactly this level of debt. And worse. He lived through it.
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They show us what we have as it once was,
Blindingly undiminished, just as though
By acting differently, we could have kept it so.

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Disco Pickle

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Re: #'s on the Teaparty
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2010, 11:52:12 am »
Quote from: The Dancing Pickle
Keynes probably didn't anticipate this level of debt, either:

The important figure there is the 'debt as a fraction of GDP' one, not the raw numbers. Debt as a fraction of GDP spikes highest during, before, and just after WW2. Which was exactly when Keynes was writing, and when he was arguing most venomously with the American government about why they should bail out the UK and delay claiming on UK war debt because the alternative was economic catastrophe. So, he was certainly aware of these levels of debt.

I'm not an economist, but Keynes' ideas have always made a lot of sense to me in the classes I have encountered him, and I think he did, in fact, anticipate exactly this level of debt. And worse. He lived through it.

I believe you mean WWI.  He was always concerned about the treaty of Versailles and the level of reparations that Germany had to pay. 

I also agree with him on how to fund wars,  through taxation rather than inflation.

but his macro economics and central banking ensure that wages can never keep up with the inflation inherent in the system.  So much more so now that there are no ties what so ever to any sort of commodity.

Events in the past may be roughly divided into those which probably never happened and those which do not matter. --William Ralph Inge

"sometimes someone confesses a sin in order to take credit for it." -- John Von Neumann

Demolition_Squid

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Re: #'s on the Teaparty
« Reply #48 on: October 15, 2010, 12:11:16 pm »
No, I meant that the graph you provided shows debt as a fraction of GDP spikes highest at the end of world war 2. John Maynard Keynes was very involved with world economics at that time. He gave some fantastic talks during this period. I do not believe that he radically revised his earlier theories, instead arguing that they could deal with debt of this level.
Truly, though our element is time,
We are not suited to the long perspectives
Open at each instant of our lives.
They link us to our losses: worse,
They show us what we have as it once was,
Blindingly undiminished, just as though
By acting differently, we could have kept it so.

-Reference Back, Phillip Larkin

East Coast Hustle

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Re: #'s on the Teaparty
« Reply #49 on: October 15, 2010, 05:08:29 pm »
I fully intend to vote for Romney in the republican primary. And not as a joke.

Feel free to pile on now.

Why?

Because I'd rather kick myself in the balls than vote for Obama again, and Romney is the least crazy, most fiscally responsible of the likely GOP contenders for the nomination. I may reconsider if Jeb Bush throws his hat in the ring. If you can overlook his last name, he's a fairly moderate non-Jebus Freak, alot more like his dad than his brother. Still think I'd go for Romney over him, but I'd be willing to be swayed.
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Doktor Howl

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Re: #'s on the Teaparty
« Reply #50 on: October 15, 2010, 05:11:32 pm »
I fully intend to vote for Romney in the republican primary. And not as a joke.

Feel free to pile on now.

Why?

Because I'd rather kick myself in the balls than vote for Obama again, and Romney is the least crazy, most fiscally responsible of the likely GOP contenders for the nomination. I may reconsider if Jeb Bush throws his hat in the ring. If you can overlook his last name, he's a fairly moderate non-Jebus Freak, alot more like his dad than his brother. Still think I'd go for Romney over him, but I'd be willing to be swayed.

I don't see any reason to believe that Romney is fiscally responsible.  He's a party hack, and will go along with whatever spending the party wants.

Jeb Bush would be interesting, and I think that he'd have a decent shot, if he's dumb enough to want the job.  Plus it would get the hippies all wrapped around the axle, just because of his name, which would by itself be worth it.

Me, I'm voting for Harold Stassen.

Cain

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Re: #'s on the Teaparty
« Reply #51 on: October 15, 2010, 05:13:32 pm »
I'm organising a write-in vote for Tony Blair.

Doktor Howl

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Re: #'s on the Teaparty
« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2010, 05:16:07 pm »
I'm organising a write-in vote for Tony Blair.

Unfortunately, he's ineligible.  I'd totally vote for him.

Cain

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Re: #'s on the Teaparty
« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2010, 05:23:17 pm »
I'm organising a write-in vote for Tony Blair.

Unfortunately, he's ineligible. 

Only by accident of birthplace, and if you believe the wingnuts, even that is no bar to the highest office in the land.  And he fits all the other qualifications perfectly.

I want to see him and Schwarzengger fight for it.  Physically.

Doktor Howl

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Re: #'s on the Teaparty
« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2010, 05:24:03 pm »
I'm organising a write-in vote for Tony Blair.

Unfortunately, he's ineligible. 

Only by accident of birthplace, and if you believe the wingnuts, even that is no bar to the highest office in the land.  And he fits all the other qualifications perfectly.

I want to see him and Schwarzengger fight for it.  Physically.

With 30 pound tunas as clubs.

My money is on Blair.

Cain

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Re: #'s on the Teaparty
« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2010, 05:30:20 pm »
Yeah, he has that crazy look in his eyes, the one that says "yes, I might be a skinny bastard who weighs 90 pounds after being caught in a rainstorm....but I'm going to bite your fucking ear off." 

East Coast Hustle

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Re: #'s on the Teaparty
« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2010, 05:52:46 pm »
But Tony Blair is genetically programmed to be subservient to the American President.

If Tony Blair WAS the American President, it would be like the whole world divided by zero.
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Cain

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Re: #'s on the Teaparty
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2010, 05:53:26 pm »
 :lulz:

Doktor Howl

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Re: #'s on the Teaparty
« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2010, 05:54:06 pm »
But Tony Blair is genetically programmed to be subservient to the American President.

If Tony Blair WAS the American President, it would be like the whole world divided by zero.

 :lulz:

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Re: #'s on the Teaparty
« Reply #59 on: October 16, 2010, 12:07:08 am »
But Tony Blair is genetically programmed to be subservient to the American President.

If Tony Blair WAS the American President, it would be like the whole world divided by zero.

 :lulz: