Author Topic: WE know what the Founding Fathers really meant!  (Read 2359 times)

Disco Pickle

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Re: WE know what the Founding Fathers really meant!
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2011, 06:08:22 pm »
It's fun to imagine that things could potentially become that hilarious, but I just can't see this really happening.

The shit storm would be a shit hurricane.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: WE know what the Founding Fathers really meant!
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2011, 06:10:50 pm »
It's fun to imagine that things could potentially become that hilarious, but I just can't see this really happening.

The shit storm would be a shit hurricane.

I'd think so, but I read the paper today.

There will be no shitstorm.  People will gripe and do nothing.  The media will be playful with it, and examine "the controversy" rather than the actual content.  Millions of citizens will be stripped of their citizenship, and the remainder won't care, because the new season of Dancing With The Stars will have the other Palin kid in it.
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Re: WE know what the Founding Fathers really meant!
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2011, 06:15:55 pm »
We have kids in America going hungry.  We have The Dude from The Big Lebowski headlining campaigns to feed hungry kids in the USA, but nobody really gives a damn about that.  This kind of shit can easily fly under the radar as well.  America may not be out and out racist like it has been in the past.  But I think there is still a fair amount of strong indifference and lack of empathy when it comes to the poor minorities in this country. 
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Re: WE know what the Founding Fathers really meant!
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2011, 06:47:30 pm »
Here is the thing though.  Even as short of a time as 70 years ago not all Native Americans were considered citizens.  Most tribes were not made citizens until after WWII. 

That is where my problem arises.  If they actually retro this, then my mother's parents who came over from Ireland were not citizens when my mother and uncle were born, they did become citizens later, but.....

My Dad's mother was not made a citizen until after WWII and his father wasn't a citizen when he died.

I'm pretty much screwed.

They will have a huge fight on their hands with the NA community because there are thousands of tribal members who will stop being citizens if they retro act this BS.

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Re: WE know what the Founding Fathers really meant!
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2011, 07:11:41 pm »
If they actually retroact this, there will be no such thing as an American Citizen.
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Re: WE know what the Founding Fathers really meant!
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2011, 07:12:43 pm »
If they actually retroact this, there will be no such thing as an American Citizen.

This is truth.

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: WE know what the Founding Fathers really meant!
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2011, 07:41:27 pm »
No... in the 1800's when this law was passed there were no immigration rules, therefore no illegal immigration. Before this, if you lived in the country for two years, then you were a citizen. When the amendment passed, it simply meant that the "two year" rule didn't apply to a newborn.

However, even then the Senators stated that it did not apply to 'all' babies born in the US.

"... will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of person." (Senator Jacob Howard, one of the proponents of the amendment)
see: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llcg&fileName=073/llcg073.db&recNum=11)

The larger issue here is that there are now two competing issues:
1. Persons born in the US are citizens, but this doesn't apply to "foreigners, aliens" (which would be visiting foreign nationals).
2. There were no immigration laws to speak of, so there were only two kinds of non-citizens: foreigners who will be citizens in two years, foreigners who are visiting.

It wasn't until the 20th century that the status of "illegal alien" existed. So the 14th amendment didn't apply to this class of people because that class of people didn't exist.

The real question comes down to what position the "illegal" is in... are they like " foreigners who will be citizens in two years" or "foreigners who are visiting"? Some obviously want to be citizens, but are not on any current path to get there.

There have been multiple Supreme Court cases since the implementation of the 14th amendment which clarified that not every baby born in the physical US were covered. As far as I can tell the only legal basis for the claim is the 1965 Immigration Act. Technically, a law in congress doesn't trump the 14th amendment.

Thus, IF the teabaggers want to change the status of "anchor babies" they need to change the 1965 Immigration Act, NOT the 14th amendment.

 
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Re: WE know what the Founding Fathers really meant!
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2011, 08:21:35 pm »
If they actually retroact this, there will be no such thing as an American Citizen.

Good point.
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Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: WE know what the Founding Fathers really meant!
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2011, 10:19:14 pm »
If they actually retroact this, there will be no such thing as an American Citizen.

Good point.

Before 1924, you were a citizen if you lived here for two years and were fully under the jurisdiction of the US government (had no other national allegiance). So anyone born in the US before 1922 would be a US citizen by 1924, even without the 14th amendment.

So if this was 'retroactively' applied... it would only affect people born in the US after 1924 to non-citizens.




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Re: WE know what the Founding Fathers really meant!
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2011, 11:00:25 pm »
That still kicks my father out, and maybe me depending on if my mother is enough to get me in.  Roger would up in Canada with me too I believe.
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Re: WE know what the Founding Fathers really meant!
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2011, 11:21:53 pm »
Yeah I'm fucked. Mom's folks came over in 32. Dad's dad came over at the end of WWII. And as I said his mom wasn3 given citizenship status until the end of WWII.

Fuck it. If America doesn't want us then they can send me to... well fuck I don't know where they would send me damn.....

Juana Go?

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Re: WE know what the Founding Fathers really meant!
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2011, 11:45:46 pm »
I've had ancestors here since colonial times on both sides, so I'm not going to be evicted. But if it were to get passed, I don't think I'd want to stay.

I'm trying to envision what the response would be like, if Arizona bucked a SCotUS decision on this. Probably nothing, except for the cheering from the Tea Baggers.
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Re: WE know what the Founding Fathers really meant!
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2011, 12:13:04 am »
SO what's their solution? Only children born in the US to Americans born in the US can be American?

Citting inability to maintain recruitment quota, US Army lobbies congress that only soldiers and their offspring are granted citizenship.
:lulz:

Tho wasn't the orginal intent to help african slaves,
 become americans?
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Re: WE know what the Founding Fathers really meant!
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2011, 12:52:11 am »
On a side note, if they make this retro active neither my mother, father nor I will be a US citizen.

Damn.





Oh, I'm ALL for making this retroactive, ALL THE WAY BACK.  :lulz:

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Re: WE know what the Founding Fathers really meant!
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2011, 03:49:29 am »
My mom's side of the family were colonists...AND THEY WERE FUCKING LOYALISTS TOO.

Come and get me, Teabaggers.
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