Author Topic: Health care struck down.  (Read 2011 times)

Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Health care struck down.
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2011, 06:17:11 pm »
I was really surprised that they put a mandate in there to begin with. Seemed like a easy way for the whole thing to get trashed. I mean, its pretty clearly outside the powers granted to the Federal government by the Constitution. Seemed like an easy handle to pull the whole thing down with when it was first discussed.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Health care struck down.
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2011, 06:20:16 pm »
I was really surprised that they put a mandate in there to begin with.

That's when I knew the fix was in.
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Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Health care struck down.
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2011, 06:22:48 pm »
I was really surprised that they put a mandate in there to begin with.

That's when I knew the fix was in.

I agree 100%
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Re: Health care struck down.
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2011, 06:25:34 pm »
I was really surprised that they put a mandate in there to begin with. Seemed like a easy way for the whole thing to get trashed. I mean, its pretty clearly outside the powers granted to the Federal government by the Constitution. Seemed like an easy handle to pull the whole thing down with when it was first discussed.

It was the only way to get the insurance co. lobbyists on board.  Which should say something about the inordinate amount of power lobbyists have in Washington.

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Re: Health care struck down.
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2011, 06:29:10 pm »
I was really surprised that they put a mandate in there to begin with. Seemed like a easy way for the whole thing to get trashed. I mean, its pretty clearly outside the powers granted to the Federal government by the Constitution. Seemed like an easy handle to pull the whole thing down with when it was first discussed.

It was the only way to get the insurance co. lobbyists on board.  Which should say something about the inordinate amount of power money lobbyists have in Washington.

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Re: Health care struck down.
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2011, 06:30:30 pm »
You don't honestly think there's a difference between those two words, do you?

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Re: Health care struck down.
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2011, 06:32:32 pm »
You don't honestly think there's a difference between those two words, do you?

Under some circumstances I do. Lawmakers already have power, but they never have enough money.

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Health care struck down.
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2011, 06:39:26 pm »
You don't honestly think there's a difference between those two words, do you?

Under some circumstances I do. Lawmakers already have power, but they never have enough money.

No.  They have the power granted to them by lobbyist/contributor money.
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Cain

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Re: Health care struck down.
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2011, 04:16:28 am »
And the problem is, the Dems didn't put a separation clause in the damn thing.

Do you think that was an accident?  An oversight?  Perhaps the little forms engine they use to create it broke down?  And I am sure our energetic and thoughtful representatives all happened to miss it as they read the entire bill, just like they read every other bill.

 :lulz:

If anyone thought there was a difference between the dems and the neocons, this should have dispelled it.

But it won't.

Who actually drafted the legislation again?

Not the offices of this Senator and that, the actual names of the people involved?

We all know that Senators are too busy campaigning for money, having affairs, doing blow and appearing on TV shows to actually draft legislation.  They're lawyers for the most part, or ex-soldiers, not policy wonks.  But the people who work for them...well, they're policy wonks.  Usually well groomed policy wonks coming from a small number of influential think-tanks.

Just saying, since modern democracy runs less on "one man, one vote" and more on thousands of technocratic specialists writing things up all day long, knowing which invisible technocrats wrote the legislation may give an insight into who is actually running the health care system.

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Re: Health care struck down.
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2011, 04:29:47 am »
And the problem is, the Dems didn't put a separation clause in the damn thing.

Do you think that was an accident?  An oversight?  Perhaps the little forms engine they use to create it broke down?  And I am sure our energetic and thoughtful representatives all happened to miss it as they read the entire bill, just like they read every other bill.

 :lulz:

If anyone thought there was a difference between the dems and the neocons, this should have dispelled it.

But it won't.

Who actually drafted the legislation again?

Not the offices of this Senator and that, the actual names of the people involved?

We all know that Senators are too busy campaigning for money, having affairs, doing blow and appearing on TV shows to actually draft legislation.  They're lawyers for the most part, or ex-soldiers, not policy wonks.  But the people who work for them...well, they're policy wonks.  Usually well groomed policy wonks coming from a small number of influential think-tanks.

Just saying, since modern democracy runs less on "one man, one vote" and more on thousands of technocratic specialists writing things up all day long, knowing which invisible technocrats wrote the legislation may give an insight into who is actually running the health care system.

According to an article you posted before, the policy wonks hail from the american university system.
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Cain

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Re: Health care struck down.
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2011, 04:47:06 am »
True.  But not terribly helpful, as so do the members of Senate themselves.

It would be more helpful to get a full career background on them - think tanks, advisory committees, private sector enterprises etc and see if any correlation between backgrounds could be discovered.  I mean, it's not entirely likely, but imagine if, for example, several of the major writers of the Health care bill all worked for a private research group funded in part by a certain medical insurance company.

This happens a lot in foreign policy, but that is a far more politicized issue than most, and with a far smaller pool of expertise as well...but it would be interesting to see if and to what extent that pattern replicates elsewhere...

Cain

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Re: Health care struck down.
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2011, 01:27:49 pm »
Turns out Liz Fowler, special aide to Max Baucus, worked for the insurance giant Wellpoint for several years before going to work for the Senator, and was intimately involved in the writing of the bill.

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Re: Health care struck down.
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2011, 05:06:23 pm »
Turns out Liz Fowler, special aide to Max Baucus, worked for the insurance giant Wellpoint for several years before going to work for the Senator, and was intimately involved in the writing of the bill.

Not surprising.  It is facts such as these that drive off very good people from even going into politics at the outset.  Because once they make it into some sort of inner circle where the "man behind the curtain" is revealed, they pull back in total horror at what they behold.  Americans really have no clue, I think, in general, about the machine that is the lawmaking monster in our government. 

Aides write the speeches and strategies based on internet searches and newsfeeds.  PAC members drive campaigns (the same ones who pay into said campaigns), and their movements are usually unabated by their candidates, however brutal/morally bankrupt they may be.  And the policy researchers and writers usually come from think tanks that contribute a one-sided agenda, and people who also come from some bigwig corporation who have a lot to lose and a lot to gain by just sitting at the table.  Joe Blow never has a CHANCE against such things.

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Re: Health care struck down.
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2011, 05:19:58 am »
I got around to asking a lawyer friend about the severability clause, he said entire bills only get struck down when the unconstitutional clause is so central to the bill that the remaining clauses would serve no purpose.  So I stand by my initial reaction that the judge is smoking Tea Party flavored crack.
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Bebek Sincap Ratatosk

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Re: Health care struck down.
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2011, 09:57:18 pm »
I got around to asking a lawyer friend about the severability clause, he said entire bills only get struck down when the unconstitutional clause is so central to the bill that the remaining clauses would serve no purpose.  So I stand by my initial reaction that the judge is smoking Tea Party flavored crack.

IIRC, the supporters of the bill also claimed that this clause was absolutely necessary because it was the only way to stop people from waiting until they get sick to go get insurance.
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