Author Topic: A little handy gaming advice #2: How to hold a group together.  (Read 11256 times)

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: A little handy gaming advice #2: How to hold a group together.
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2011, 10:00:32 pm »
And you were one lucky bastard if you even got a reflex save at all against the Fireball, much less got to use Evasion. "The entire area is filled with fire, it doesn't make any sense that you can mitigate that damage if you're out in the open."

I bet the monsters got saving throws.   :lulz:
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Re: A little handy gaming advice #2: How to hold a group together.
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2011, 10:10:33 pm »
And you were one lucky bastard if you even got a reflex save at all against the Fireball, much less got to use Evasion. "The entire area is filled with fire, it doesn't make any sense that you can mitigate that damage if you're out in the open."

Isn't that why rogues always travel with a fighter?  Gives you something to hide behind no matter where you are.
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Re: A little handy gaming advice #2: How to hold a group together.
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2011, 10:27:22 pm »
And you were one lucky bastard if you even got a reflex save at all against the Fireball, much less got to use Evasion. "The entire area is filled with fire, it doesn't make any sense that you can mitigate that damage if you're out in the open."

I bet the monsters got saving throws.   :lulz:

Sometimes. Other (read: most) times the monster was a bullshit Far Realm monstrosity with a zillion hit points and damage reduction anyway, so he didn't need to give it the saving throw. He wasn't a player-killer DM, but the boss monsters tended to be rather uncreative.

That was another thing that quickly became bullshit. The Far Realm is called "Far" for a goddamn reason. It ain't the Realm That's Three Doors Down The Street On The Left, so why the fucknut are we running into Lovecraftian freaks every other adventure at like 6th level? Oh, because your imagination appears to no longer consider anything that isn't an aberration to be a cool enough encounter anymore, that's right. :argh!:

Meh. I've been tearing this guy a new asshole all afternoon now. I should be fair and point out that we did play with him semi-regularly for a year and a half, and usually enjoyed ourselves well enough.

Doktor Howl

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Re: A little handy gaming advice #2: How to hold a group together.
« Reply #48 on: May 30, 2013, 07:08:40 pm »
And you were one lucky bastard if you even got a reflex save at all against the Fireball, much less got to use Evasion. "The entire area is filled with fire, it doesn't make any sense that you can mitigate that damage if you're out in the open."

I bet the monsters got saving throws.   :lulz:

Sometimes. Other (read: most) times the monster was a bullshit Far Realm monstrosity with a zillion hit points and damage reduction anyway, so he didn't need to give it the saving throw. He wasn't a player-killer DM, but the boss monsters tended to be rather uncreative.

That was another thing that quickly became bullshit. The Far Realm is called "Far" for a goddamn reason. It ain't the Realm That's Three Doors Down The Street On The Left, so why the fucknut are we running into Lovecraftian freaks every other adventure at like 6th level? Oh, because your imagination appears to no longer consider anything that isn't an aberration to be a cool enough encounter anymore, that's right. :argh!:

Meh. I've been tearing this guy a new asshole all afternoon now. I should be fair and point out that we did play with him semi-regularly for a year and a half, and usually enjoyed ourselves well enough.

*bump*

This.

The idea of using EXOTIC, RARE-ASS monsters ALL THE TIME is about as imaginative as the low-functioning geek who says "I WANNA PLAY A DROW, BECAUSE THAT'S CAPS-LOCK FOR COOL!".   Beats coming up with an original idea for a standard character, right?  Same thing with the Far Realms bullshit...Why put any thought into the campaign, when you can make it "interesting" with YET ANOTHER uber-tough, uber-rare monster.  Yawn.

Don Coyote

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Re: A little handy gaming advice #2: How to hold a group together.
« Reply #49 on: May 30, 2013, 07:10:25 pm »


4.  CLASS/RACE ABILITIES ARE NOT TO BE NERF-BATTED.  Nothing is worse than dealing with a DM who thinks that a core class is "broken", and modifies it...Or jacks with the rules to make his life easier.  The best example of this is the second level rogue ability Evasion.  It doesn't matter where the rogue is, or what the situation is.  If he makes his reflex save vs that fireball, he takes no Goddamn damage even if there's nowhere for him to hide or take cover.  It's a game mechanic, used to balance the various classes.  This isn't a Goddamn physics class.  He just gets to do it.  End of story.  Half the fun of the game is leveling up to those cool abilities.  Having them then arbitrarily neutered by a lazy DM makes players angry, and they'll eventually quit.  DO THE FUCKING LEGWORK TO MAKE A CHALLENGE, DO NOT FORCE A CHALLENGE BY DENYING CLASS ABILITIES THAT THE PLAYERS HAVE EARNED.


Why is always evasion and reflex saves that get fucking nerfed? Further reminder why I don't want to join back up with my last group. Fucking dm was nerfing my wife's rogue with that manner of bullshit. "But you get a fort save against the damage instead" Because my paladin doesn't give a shit about damage anyways, and rogues have such a high fucking fort bonus right.
Or being argued with about how horses and other large creatures work in combat in PF. Rules state they take up a 10'X10' square, if you're bitching about how horses should be able to stack up 5' from each other and other such shit because you fucking used to raise horses, sod the fuck off. I don't fucking bring down the hammer of how you actually fight a man in armor one on one with a sword and other such bullshit because I'm playing a GAME with RULES. If I don't like the rules of this GAME I play a different GAME, or I change the rules in a way that everyone at the table agrees with and make our rules known from the beginning to new players.
Or having a fucking holy avenger EXPLODE because it's a "relic" when it isn't RAW, so it can do a retributive strike, when the only relic that RAW can do that is a specific staff.

Doktor Howl

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Re: A little handy gaming advice #2: How to hold a group together.
« Reply #50 on: May 30, 2013, 07:11:57 pm »


4.  CLASS/RACE ABILITIES ARE NOT TO BE NERF-BATTED.  Nothing is worse than dealing with a DM who thinks that a core class is "broken", and modifies it...Or jacks with the rules to make his life easier.  The best example of this is the second level rogue ability Evasion.  It doesn't matter where the rogue is, or what the situation is.  If he makes his reflex save vs that fireball, he takes no Goddamn damage even if there's nowhere for him to hide or take cover.  It's a game mechanic, used to balance the various classes.  This isn't a Goddamn physics class.  He just gets to do it.  End of story.  Half the fun of the game is leveling up to those cool abilities.  Having them then arbitrarily neutered by a lazy DM makes players angry, and they'll eventually quit.  DO THE FUCKING LEGWORK TO MAKE A CHALLENGE, DO NOT FORCE A CHALLENGE BY DENYING CLASS ABILITIES THAT THE PLAYERS HAVE EARNED.


Why is always evasion and reflex saves that get fucking nerfed? Further reminder why I don't want to join back up with my last group. Fucking dm was nerfing my wife's rogue with that manner of bullshit. "But you get a fort save against the damage instead" Because my paladin doesn't give a shit about damage anyways, and rogues have such a high fucking fort bonus right.
Or being argued with about how horses and other large creatures work in combat in PF. Rules state they take up a 10'X10' square, if you're bitching about how horses should be able to stack up 5' from each other and other such shit because you fucking used to raise horses, sod the fuck off. I don't fucking bring down the hammer of how you actually fight a man in armor one on one with a sword and other such bullshit because I'm playing a GAME with RULES. If I don't like the rules of this GAME I play a different GAME, or I change the rules in a way that everyone at the table agrees with and make our rules known from the beginning to new players.
Or having a fucking holy avenger EXPLODE because it's a "relic" when it isn't RAW, so it can do a retributive strike, when the only relic that RAW can do that is a specific staff.

Why learn the rules and learn to work WITH the rules when you have UNLIMITED POWAH?

Sure, all the good players bail, but that's because THEY SUCK.

Don Coyote

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Re: A little handy gaming advice #2: How to hold a group together.
« Reply #51 on: May 30, 2013, 07:13:03 pm »
And you were one lucky bastard if you even got a reflex save at all against the Fireball, much less got to use Evasion. "The entire area is filled with fire, it doesn't make any sense that you can mitigate that damage if you're out in the open."

I bet the monsters got saving throws.   :lulz:

Sometimes. Other (read: most) times the monster was a bullshit Far Realm monstrosity with a zillion hit points and damage reduction anyway, so he didn't need to give it the saving throw. He wasn't a player-killer DM, but the boss monsters tended to be rather uncreative.

That was another thing that quickly became bullshit. The Far Realm is called "Far" for a goddamn reason. It ain't the Realm That's Three Doors Down The Street On The Left, so why the fucknut are we running into Lovecraftian freaks every other adventure at like 6th level? Oh, because your imagination appears to no longer consider anything that isn't an aberration to be a cool enough encounter anymore, that's right. :argh!:

Meh. I've been tearing this guy a new asshole all afternoon now. I should be fair and point out that we did play with him semi-regularly for a year and a half, and usually enjoyed ourselves well enough.

*bump*

This.

The idea of using EXOTIC, RARE-ASS monsters ALL THE TIME is about as imaginative as the low-functioning geek who says "I WANNA PLAY A DROW, BECAUSE THAT'S CAPS-LOCK FOR COOL!".   Beats coming up with an original idea for a standard character, right?  Same thing with the Far Realms bullshit...Why put any thought into the campaign, when you can make it "interesting" with YET ANOTHER uber-tough, uber-rare monster.  Yawn.

Man EXOTIC TEMPLATED MONSTROSITIES OF PLAYER DEVOURING are WAAAAAAY cooler when they are like important end bosses with scads of (mostly) normal humanoid minions.
I still remember the looks on the last party I gmed for when they ran into the boss for their first dungeon crawl. That was reward enough, even if they handily smash the crap out of it.

Cainad (dec.)

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Re: A little handy gaming advice #2: How to hold a group together.
« Reply #52 on: May 30, 2013, 08:20:15 pm »
Sometimes. Other (read: most) times the monster was a bullshit Far Realm monstrosity with a zillion hit points and damage reduction anyway, so he didn't need to give it the saving throw. He wasn't a player-killer DM, but the boss monsters tended to be rather uncreative.

That was another thing that quickly became bullshit. The Far Realm is called "Far" for a goddamn reason. It ain't the Realm That's Three Doors Down The Street On The Left, so why the fucknut are we running into Lovecraftian freaks every other adventure at like 6th level? Oh, because your imagination appears to no longer consider anything that isn't an aberration to be a cool enough encounter anymore, that's right. :argh!:

Meh. I've been tearing this guy a new asshole all afternoon now. I should be fair and point out that we did play with him semi-regularly for a year and a half, and usually enjoyed ourselves well enough.

*bump*

This.

The idea of using EXOTIC, RARE-ASS monsters ALL THE TIME is about as imaginative as the low-functioning geek who says "I WANNA PLAY A DROW, BECAUSE THAT'S CAPS-LOCK FOR COOL!".   Beats coming up with an original idea for a standard character, right?  Same thing with the Far Realms bullshit...Why put any thought into the campaign, when you can make it "interesting" with YET ANOTHER uber-tough, uber-rare monster.  Yawn.

Did I ever mention that this DM once ran a session for total newbie players through a Far Realm jaunt? Because that happened.


When his imagination was on-point and not up his own ass, this guy produced some really interesting stuff. In fact, the most awesome thing he ever GM'd was a rules-light, homebrew horror-themed campaign that wasn't D&D. Those were two of the best Halloweens I spent at college.

When he was running D&D and decided to do things "his way" is when things got stupid.

Doktor Howl

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Re: A little handy gaming advice #2: How to hold a group together.
« Reply #53 on: May 30, 2013, 09:24:10 pm »
Man EXOTIC TEMPLATED MONSTROSITIES OF PLAYER DEVOURING are WAAAAAAY cooler when they are like important end bosses with scads of (mostly) normal humanoid minions.
I still remember the looks on the last party I gmed for when they ran into the boss for their first dungeon crawl. That was reward enough, even if they handily smash the crap out of it.

I love templating and leveling up monsters.  Keeps the players on their toes.  But I typically use NORMAL monsters.

Orc with barbarian levels, fiendish template.  <---  Good grunts if there's some backstory that the players know or at least have hints of.

NORMAL, 1st level warrior kobold in 9th level setting <--- scares the shit out of players, dies horribly.

Doktor Howl

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Re: A little handy gaming advice #2: How to hold a group together.
« Reply #54 on: May 30, 2013, 09:25:28 pm »
Did I ever mention that this DM once ran a session for total newbie players through a Far Realm jaunt? Because that happened.


I can't make it next week.  I, um, have to have my other appendix taken out.
\
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Oh, you too?  All the other players have the same problem.  How weird.
\
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Cainad (dec.)

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Re: A little handy gaming advice #2: How to hold a group together.
« Reply #55 on: May 30, 2013, 09:37:38 pm »
 :lulz: Pretty much exactly what happened.

Don Coyote

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Re: A little handy gaming advice #2: How to hold a group together.
« Reply #56 on: May 30, 2013, 10:04:31 pm »
Man EXOTIC TEMPLATED MONSTROSITIES OF PLAYER DEVOURING are WAAAAAAY cooler when they are like important end bosses with scads of (mostly) normal humanoid minions.
I still remember the looks on the last party I gmed for when they ran into the boss for their first dungeon crawl. That was reward enough, even if they handily smash the crap out of it.

I love templating and leveling up monsters.  Keeps the players on their toes.  But I typically use NORMAL monsters.

Orc with barbarian levels, fiendish template.  <---  Good grunts if there's some backstory that the players know or at least have hints of.

NORMAL, 1st level warrior kobold in 9th level setting <--- scares the shit out of players, dies horribly.

I like using big bugs with templates.

Don Coyote

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Re: A little handy gaming advice #2: How to hold a group together.
« Reply #57 on: May 31, 2013, 12:02:38 am »


4.  CLASS/RACE ABILITIES ARE NOT TO BE NERF-BATTED.  Nothing is worse than dealing with a DM who thinks that a core class is "broken", and modifies it...Or jacks with the rules to make his life easier.  The best example of this is the second level rogue ability Evasion.  It doesn't matter where the rogue is, or what the situation is.  If he makes his reflex save vs that fireball, he takes no Goddamn damage even if there's nowhere for him to hide or take cover.  It's a game mechanic, used to balance the various classes.  This isn't a Goddamn physics class.  He just gets to do it.  End of story.  Half the fun of the game is leveling up to those cool abilities.  Having them then arbitrarily neutered by a lazy DM makes players angry, and they'll eventually quit.  DO THE FUCKING LEGWORK TO MAKE A CHALLENGE, DO NOT FORCE A CHALLENGE BY DENYING CLASS ABILITIES THAT THE PLAYERS HAVE EARNED.


Why is always evasion and reflex saves that get fucking nerfed? Further reminder why I don't want to join back up with my last group. Fucking dm was nerfing my wife's rogue with that manner of bullshit. "But you get a fort save against the damage instead" Because my paladin doesn't give a shit about damage anyways, and rogues have such a high fucking fort bonus right.
Or being argued with about how horses and other large creatures work in combat in PF. Rules state they take up a 10'X10' square, if you're bitching about how horses should be able to stack up 5' from each other and other such shit because you fucking used to raise horses, sod the fuck off. I don't fucking bring down the hammer of how you actually fight a man in armor one on one with a sword and other such bullshit because I'm playing a GAME with RULES. If I don't like the rules of this GAME I play a different GAME, or I change the rules in a way that everyone at the table agrees with and make our rules known from the beginning to new players.
Or having a fucking holy avenger EXPLODE because it's a "relic" when it isn't RAW, so it can do a retributive strike, when the only relic that RAW can do that is a specific staff.

Why learn the rules and learn to work WITH the rules when you have UNLIMITED POWAH?

Sure, all the good players bail, but that's because THEY SUCK.
excerpt from an email from my last group's DM.
Quote
I hope this is what you asked for.  I am not sure what you mean by playing RAW.  No Pathfinder game you play will ever be RAW. The Pathfinder Game is designed with too many optional rules, and leaves many things as DM Judgement Calls or situational modifiers.  If a player doesn't like or understand the judgement call, they just ask for clarification or a change to the interpretation of the rules. The goal is to have fun, if either of you are not having fun just let me know and we can work together to make the game fun for everyone. That is why the current house rules are in effect.

 well gee that just sounds great that you think the are too many rules to run PF RAW maybe you should run something else.

Quote

PS.  If you think I forgot something let me know.  I have been DM'ed Basic D&D, 2e, 3e, 3.5e, 4e, and Pathfinder, not too mention Gurps, Rifts, and a half dozen other systems.  Sometimes I suffer from addition amnesia, which is why I encourage you to look up rules in the book or PFSRD if you have a question.


because I so want to play in a game where I should be constantly bogging the game down because he can't remember which game we are playing?




Doktor Howl

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Re: A little handy gaming advice #2: How to hold a group together.
« Reply #58 on: May 31, 2013, 01:11:54 am »


4.  CLASS/RACE ABILITIES ARE NOT TO BE NERF-BATTED.  Nothing is worse than dealing with a DM who thinks that a core class is "broken", and modifies it...Or jacks with the rules to make his life easier.  The best example of this is the second level rogue ability Evasion.  It doesn't matter where the rogue is, or what the situation is.  If he makes his reflex save vs that fireball, he takes no Goddamn damage even if there's nowhere for him to hide or take cover.  It's a game mechanic, used to balance the various classes.  This isn't a Goddamn physics class.  He just gets to do it.  End of story.  Half the fun of the game is leveling up to those cool abilities.  Having them then arbitrarily neutered by a lazy DM makes players angry, and they'll eventually quit.  DO THE FUCKING LEGWORK TO MAKE A CHALLENGE, DO NOT FORCE A CHALLENGE BY DENYING CLASS ABILITIES THAT THE PLAYERS HAVE EARNED.


Why is always evasion and reflex saves that get fucking nerfed? Further reminder why I don't want to join back up with my last group. Fucking dm was nerfing my wife's rogue with that manner of bullshit. "But you get a fort save against the damage instead" Because my paladin doesn't give a shit about damage anyways, and rogues have such a high fucking fort bonus right.
Or being argued with about how horses and other large creatures work in combat in PF. Rules state they take up a 10'X10' square, if you're bitching about how horses should be able to stack up 5' from each other and other such shit because you fucking used to raise horses, sod the fuck off. I don't fucking bring down the hammer of how you actually fight a man in armor one on one with a sword and other such bullshit because I'm playing a GAME with RULES. If I don't like the rules of this GAME I play a different GAME, or I change the rules in a way that everyone at the table agrees with and make our rules known from the beginning to new players.
Or having a fucking holy avenger EXPLODE because it's a "relic" when it isn't RAW, so it can do a retributive strike, when the only relic that RAW can do that is a specific staff.

Why learn the rules and learn to work WITH the rules when you have UNLIMITED POWAH?

Sure, all the good players bail, but that's because THEY SUCK.
excerpt from an email from my last group's DM.
Quote
I hope this is what you asked for.  I am not sure what you mean by playing RAW.  No Pathfinder game you play will ever be RAW. The Pathfinder Game is designed with too many optional rules, and leaves many things as DM Judgement Calls or situational modifiers.  If a player doesn't like or understand the judgement call, they just ask for clarification or a change to the interpretation of the rules. The goal is to have fun, if either of you are not having fun just let me know and we can work together to make the game fun for everyone. That is why the current house rules are in effect.

 well gee that just sounds great that you think the are too many rules to run PF RAW maybe you should run something else.

Quote

PS.  If you think I forgot something let me know.  I have been DM'ed Basic D&D, 2e, 3e, 3.5e, 4e, and Pathfinder, not too mention Gurps, Rifts, and a half dozen other systems.  Sometimes I suffer from addition amnesia, which is why I encourage you to look up rules in the book or PFSRD if you have a question.


because I so want to play in a game where I should be constantly bogging the game down because he can't remember which game we are playing?

I've been DMing since 1977, and I still look shit up.  He has a point there.  Now USE that shit.  Rules him to DEATH.

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Re: A little handy gaming advice #2: How to hold a group together.
« Reply #59 on: May 31, 2013, 02:25:14 am »
I want to play in a Dok game now :(
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