Author Topic: Curious about a concept in the BIP  (Read 22163 times)

Wyldkat

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Curious about a concept in the BIP
« on: May 13, 2011, 11:56:24 pm »
    I am curious about something I noticed while reading on the forums here. I went and read the BIP and PD to make sure I wasn't just hallucinating and I'm pretty sure I'm not at this point.

    First of all, to make sure I didn't totally misread everything, one of the general ideas in BIP is that each person sees everything from his/her own viewpoint which is based on his/her life up to that point. I see the world through my BIP, you see the world through yours and what we each see can be totally different, even if we are looking at the same things. The society one is raised in contributes a lot to the bars of the prison. We have the choice to just blindly exist in our BIP or to realize what it is and choose to change it to suit ourselves, adding in what we want and taking away what we don't want (in the BIP that seemed to be mainly mainstream societal gobblety gook).

    Ok, now if what I just stated is correct (or close to correct or not blatantly wrong and misread) then what I have been noticing is true. I debated for quite awhile over posting this, but I'm really curious about the correlation I'm seeing and I'm hoping that people can get past the term in about to use and address what I noticed. Here's the part I'm expecting to get flamed for. This concept is a basic one in some shamanic paths. I've known this and used this as my world view for years, long before I ever knew about Discordians. I'm curious why there is such disparagement for a system of thought that has such similarities. I'm also curious what the differences in thought on this concept might be since I couldn't puzzle that out while I was reading beyond the stress placed on mainstream societal issues in the BIP.

Cain

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Re: Curious about a concept in the BIP
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2011, 12:04:44 am »
It's quite simple.  Because shamanism is made up bullshit invented by epileptics in order to get villagers to hand over their goat.

It's the dark side.  And shamans (priests, imams etc) are so humourless when you mock their clearly false beliefs.

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Re: Curious about a concept in the BIP
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2011, 12:07:47 am »
The word 'curious' summoned me. I'm interested in this discussion. But mostly I'm amused you have an avatar here that you'd be banned for using on TCC. I will think on this and get back to you.
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Re: Curious about a concept in the BIP
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2011, 12:41:08 am »
Hey... I take exception to that. I'm epileptic and no one has ever given me any goats.  :cry:
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Curious about a concept in the BIP
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2011, 12:43:00 am »
The word 'curious' summoned me. I'm interested in this discussion. But mostly I'm amused you have an avatar here that you'd be banned for using on TCC. I will think on this and get back to you.

 :lulz: I believe that is the avatar I had before the one that landed me in TU, that was deleted for being "pornographic".
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Cain

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Re: Curious about a concept in the BIP
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2011, 12:46:32 am »
Hey... I take exception to that. I'm epileptic and no one has ever given me any goats.  :cry:

Then you need to harass this person with your visions of imminent doom more often.

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Re: Curious about a concept in the BIP
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2011, 12:53:34 am »
Hey... I take exception to that. I'm epileptic and no one has ever given me any goats.  :cry:

Then you need to harass this person with your visions of imminent doom more often.

That can be arranged.

But I want mah GOATS.  :lulz:
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Curious about a concept in the BIP
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2011, 02:23:01 am »
I always thought that the point of knowing about your prison was to escape, and searching for truth is better than banging the bars of your cell with a tin can, so to speak.
If someone does the “Fine, you’re right, I’m clearly a terrible person, I’m Satan, I’m the worst person alive, I should just die” thing in response to criticism of their harmful behavior, they are trying to manipulate people and flip the situation around so that they look like a victim.

As a neuroscientist I have to disagree with the perception that anyone is doing mathematical modeling of cognitive intelligence, yet; intelligence as an economist defines it, yes, but economists are worlds away from actual cognition.


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Re: Curious about a concept in the BIP
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2011, 02:35:33 am »
Honest answer?  Shamanism is just another cell in the BIP.  It's just more rubbish to clutter your head with.

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Re: Curious about a concept in the BIP
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2011, 02:56:12 am »
I always thought that the point of knowing about your prison was to escape, and searching for truth is better than banging the bars of your cell with a tin can, so to speak.

Honest answer?  Shamanism is just another cell in the BIP.  It's just more rubbish to clutter your head with.

Let me see if I understand what you guys are saying. And please correct me if I am wrong.

You guys are suggesting that shamanism is a something that will dig you deeper into the bowels of the prison, by its very nature. Instead of allowing you to free yourself from the prison as much as possible.

Sort of like getting thrown into solitary or having time added instead of going for time off for good behavior?

And getting out or trying to free yourself is the goal of Discordianism?

Which leaves me with the question - but what if shamanism works?

And that makes me wonder if trying to make things like shamanism work isn't another cell in BIP . . .

Which leaves me thinking I shouldn't think when I wake up from a nap until I've had a Pepsi and perhaps a shower.
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Re: Curious about a concept in the BIP
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2011, 02:57:43 am »

Which leaves me with the question - but what if shamanism works?


I'd like to answer that with a question:  What if monkeys rocket out of my arse on jet-propelled unicycles?
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Wyldkat

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Re: Curious about a concept in the BIP
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2011, 03:50:25 am »
Honest answer?  Shamanism is just another cell in the BIP.  It's just more rubbish to clutter your head with.

No disagreement here.  Everything is just a creation.  What got to me was the fact that literally the exact same teaching was being used in what I study and what I read here.  I've also found echos of it elsewhere.

I always thought that the point of knowing about your prison was to escape, and searching for truth is better than banging the bars of your cell with a tin can, so to speak.

Ok, that's pretty much what I learned elsewhere, just with slightly different terms.  What I learned was that it wasn't so much about escaping as it was about recognizing the inherent constraints and letting them go, accepting the limitations and by acceptance going beyond them.  Also it involved understanding others in a much more realistic way than is generally taught.

Let me see if I understand what you guys are saying. And please correct me if I am wrong.

You guys are suggesting that shamanism is a something that will dig you deeper into the bowels of the prison, by its very nature. Instead of allowing you to free yourself from the prison as much as possible.

Sort of like getting thrown into solitary or having time added instead of going for time off for good behavior?

That's what I figured, but when the teachings were so similar I got curious.  Hell, Casteneda is quoted in the BIP.  (and lets not turn this into bashing that particular set of teachings which is easy enough to do, it's just another construct after all).

I'm curious how a path that teaches the same concept could be villified so much.  Discordianism is a cell in the prison just as much as shamanism is and both have the same concept.

Quote
And getting out or trying to free yourself is the goal of Discordianism?

If so it's pretty much the same as what I've been learning, hence my curiosity on the subject.

Quote
Which leaves me with the question - but what if shamanism works?

Depending on what part of shamanism you are talking about it does and is historically proven to work.  If it didn't they wouldn't have held such prominent positions in society for as long as they have.  Smoke, mirrors and manipulation can be powerful tools. The metaphysical stuff is really up to each person to make heads or tails of and the opinions that arise from that are simply another bar (or construct), no matter which direction you take.

Quote
And that makes me wonder if trying to make things like shamanism work isn't another cell in BIP . . .

In what I've learned, yes it is.  I'm thinking it's the same for the BIP...?

Quote
Which leaves me thinking I shouldn't think when I wake up from a nap until I've had a Pepsi and perhaps a shower.

LOL  The whole similarity make me feel that way...

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Re: Curious about a concept in the BIP
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2011, 04:04:54 am »
Which leaves me with the question - but what if shamanism works?


What do you mean "works"?
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


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Re: Curious about a concept in the BIP
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2011, 04:07:30 am »
Which leaves me with the question - but what if shamanism works?


What do you mean "works"?

That instead of being another method of entrapment, it allows a certain acceptance, awareness, and freedom of constraint.
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Re: Curious about a concept in the BIP
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2011, 04:16:02 am »

And getting out or trying to free yourself is the goal of Discordianism?


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