Author Topic: What the shit is all of this?  (Read 18996 times)

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #150 on: April 01, 2014, 08:09:23 pm »
Apparently Native Americans just couldn't see European tall ships out on the oceans, because... you know... ig'nant.

Well, they could SEE them or see where they were GOING, but not both.  So they got fucked.

And yet creationists compare eyeballs to pocket watches...

Creationists are functionally retarded.  I suppose, as a theist, I should at least try to wrap some metaphor around creationism, but I can't.  Because it's retarded.

There is empirical evidence of how the universe and the world formed, and how life evolves.  To deny empirical evidence is in itself blasphemous.  You are, in effect, calling God a liar. 

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Invisible Man

  • gives people the beeps
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 29949
    • View Profile
Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #151 on: April 01, 2014, 08:10:43 pm »
Apparently Native Americans just couldn't see European tall ships out on the oceans, because... you know... ig'nant.

Well, they could SEE them or see where they were GOING, but not both.  So they got fucked.

And yet creationists compare eyeballs to pocket watches...

Creationists are functionally retarded.  I suppose, as a theist, I should at least try to wrap some metaphor around creationism, but I can't.  Because it's retarded.

There is empirical evidence of how the universe and the world formed, and how life evolves.  To deny empirical evidence is in itself blasphemous.  You are, in effect, calling God a liar.

Oh shit, that's a good argument.  I'm going to try to remember that.

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #152 on: April 01, 2014, 08:13:30 pm »
Apparently Native Americans just couldn't see European tall ships out on the oceans, because... you know... ig'nant.

Well, they could SEE them or see where they were GOING, but not both.  So they got fucked.

And yet creationists compare eyeballs to pocket watches...

Creationists are functionally retarded.  I suppose, as a theist, I should at least try to wrap some metaphor around creationism, but I can't.  Because it's retarded.

There is empirical evidence of how the universe and the world formed, and how life evolves.  To deny empirical evidence is in itself blasphemous.  You are, in effect, calling God a liar.

Oh shit, that's a good argument.  I'm going to try to remember that.

I've been arguing with Calvinists.  I believe I've mentioned this.

I still have to write some of it up.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #153 on: April 01, 2014, 08:17:56 pm »
Also, to say that the evidence is "a lie of the devil" is outright Manichaeism, which is abhorrent to Christians, Jews, and Muslims, as it denies the omnipotence of God.

And that's kind of fun to throw in their faces, as well.

See:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Invisible Man

  • gives people the beeps
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 29949
    • View Profile
Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #154 on: April 01, 2014, 08:45:13 pm »
Also, to say that the evidence is "a lie of the devil" is outright Manichaeism, which is abhorrent to Christians, Jews, and Muslims, as it denies the omnipotence of God.

And that's kind of fun to throw in their faces, as well.

See:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism

Funny how many of them use that one though.

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #155 on: April 01, 2014, 08:46:08 pm »
Also, to say that the evidence is "a lie of the devil" is outright Manichaeism, which is abhorrent to Christians, Jews, and Muslims, as it denies the omnipotence of God.

And that's kind of fun to throw in their faces, as well.

See:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism

Funny how many of them use that one though.

All you have to do is ask them how limited God is, then.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Invisible Man

  • gives people the beeps
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 29949
    • View Profile
Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #156 on: April 01, 2014, 08:52:33 pm »
Also, to say that the evidence is "a lie of the devil" is outright Manichaeism, which is abhorrent to Christians, Jews, and Muslims, as it denies the omnipotence of God.

And that's kind of fun to throw in their faces, as well.

See:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism

Funny how many of them use that one though.

All you have to do is ask them how limited God is, then.

You're a bad boy, Roger.  :lulz:

Faust

  • Tyrannical Overlord
  • Deserved It
  • *
  • Posts: 82653
  • The Greasy Strangler
    • View Profile
Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #157 on: April 01, 2014, 08:54:45 pm »
It is not truly random, but extremely complex, possibly beyond our comprehension. Levels of sophisticated physics at extremely microscopic levels are EXTREMELY complex and unpredictable at times.
Ok, that's reasonable.

I'm saying that patterns are capable of become increasingly complex, onward towards infinity, in a way where they will eventually transcend any conscious minds ability to perceive it's mechanics. 
Uh, abstraction is a concept thats good for dealing with what you are describing. And significantly complex pattern can be broken down into less complex smaller more manageable ones. It allows the human mind to grasp big concepts without needing to understand all the little ones. But back to what you just said, in quantum mechanics there has been no indication that any of the concepts ever tend towards so complex they are unfathomable.
 
Chaos being that asymptote of an infinitely complex model of reality, that is only possibly perceived by a being of infinite IQ, or a godlike entity by definition of the word, omniscient. 
Why? Nothing we have observed indicates this to be the case. It would take a god like entity to measure and be aware of everything at once, but you don't need to be able to do that to understand the laws that govern that everything.

Have you ever seen the documentary "What the Bleep do we Know?".  It talks a lot about quantum mechanics, and also the influence of mind on reality.  For instance, electrons passed through a filter behaved differently depending on whether or not they were being observed while passing through the filter.  The very act of observing, or adding consciousness to the equation, changed the behavior of the electrons.  They also used "hard concentration" on certain outcomes to influence probable outcomes on seemingly random events.  Mind over matter kinda stuff.  It's a fun and interesting watch

:enough:

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #158 on: April 01, 2014, 09:01:29 pm »
Also, to say that the evidence is "a lie of the devil" is outright Manichaeism, which is abhorrent to Christians, Jews, and Muslims, as it denies the omnipotence of God.

And that's kind of fun to throw in their faces, as well.

See:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism

Funny how many of them use that one though.

All you have to do is ask them how limited God is, then.

You're a bad boy, Roger.  :lulz:

On the contrary...I am a Holy Man™, and if it takes wounding the inner child of a moron to pound some of that Holiness™ into their heads, well yanno, at least I'm not knifing someone to make my point, as has been done by at least one prior prophet (Samuel, aka "Anything For a Laugh Sam").
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

  • v=1/3πr2h
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 687093
  • The sky tastes like red exuberance.
    • View Profile
Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #159 on: April 01, 2014, 09:49:28 pm »
Yep.  Me too.

Below the subatomic level, there is nothing but randomness.  This is as readily apparent as the earth being flat by observers around the world!  Until of course, we see around the world.

LOGICAL CHECKMATES!

Person 1: "Think for Yourself!"
Person 2: "Alright!"
Person 1: "Hmmm..."

both scratch their heads...

Person 1: "Think for Yourself!"
Person 2: "No!"

both scratch their heads...

Person 1: " Think for yourself!"
Person 2: "Shut up."

Person 2 goes back to their e-sodoku.
Person 1 is butthurt because nobody's fighting the power with them.

This reminds me of  my recent discovery that about the most offensive thing you can say to a person, be they religious, atheist, vegan, or whatever, is "I don't want to talk about your beliefs because I don't care". This is, for reasons I have not yet explored, much more offensive to most people than "I think you're wrong and I'm going to tell you why".

To consider someone wrong, you'd first have to consider them, at all.  It's almost like to refuse to even consider the position, you've denied their personhood - it would seem negation of the self is worse than possibly being wrong.

If taken to an extreme enough level, certainly. But I have noticed that even when I am willing to engage with/validate people on other topics, many people get seriously pissy with me when I don't want to talk about religion/lack thereof, because it's irrelevant to me. They seem to often feel profoundly threatened by my lack of caring about THAT ONE THING, even though I am in no other way denying their personhood.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


Mesozoic Mister Nigel

  • v=1/3πr2h
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 687093
  • The sky tastes like red exuberance.
    • View Profile
Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #160 on: April 01, 2014, 09:51:17 pm »
Yep.  Me too.

Below the subatomic level, there is nothing but randomness.  This is as readily apparent as the earth being flat by observers around the world!  Until of course, we see around the world.

LOGICAL CHECKMATES!

Person 1: "Think for Yourself!"
Person 2: "Alright!"
Person 1: "Hmmm..."

both scratch their heads...

Person 1: "Think for Yourself!"
Person 2: "No!"

both scratch their heads...

Person 1: " Think for yourself!"
Person 2: "Shut up."

Person 2 goes back to their e-sodoku.
Person 1 is butthurt because nobody's fighting the power with them.

This reminds me of  my recent discovery that about the most offensive thing you can say to a person, be they religious, atheist, vegan, or whatever, is "I don't want to talk about your beliefs because I don't care". This is, for reasons I have not yet explored, much more offensive to most people than "I think you're wrong and I'm going to tell you why".

Yeah, I've seen that for a few years, but it took the advent of the SJW to really drive it home.

What's an SJW?
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


The Good Reverend Roger

  • Horrible Bastard
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 36736
    • View Profile
Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #161 on: April 01, 2014, 09:52:51 pm »
What's an SJW?

Social Justice Warrior.  tumblr/Garbo/etc.  It conveys the meaning without soiling the more respectable "feminist", LGBT activist", etc.

Not sure where I heard the term.  Here, I think.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Mesozoic Mister Nigel

  • v=1/3πr2h
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 687093
  • The sky tastes like red exuberance.
    • View Profile
Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #162 on: April 01, 2014, 09:53:27 pm »
Quantum physics is non-intuitive.  The math works, predictions from experiments are confirmed, theories are validated. 

That doesn't mean it makes the same kind of sense that Newtonian physics does.  Things don't make "sense" in the traditional... um... sense.

Maybe we can look at it this way -- the probability field IS.  That's the way it works in QuantumLand.  But to us up here in MacroWorld, it's confusing as hell, and the only word we have for it is "random".
^^^
This is essentially what I was saying in more a more technical and scholarly wording.  It is not truly random, but extremely complex, possibly beyond our comprehension.  Levels of sophisticated physics at extremely microscopic levels are EXTREMELY complex and unpredictable at times.  I'm saying that patterns are capable of become increasingly complex, onward towards infinity, in a way where they will eventually transcend any conscious minds ability to perceive it's mechanics.  Chaos being that asymptote of an infinitely complex model of reality, that is only possibly perceived by a being of infinite IQ, or a godlike entity by definition of the word, omniscient. 

Have you ever seen the documentary "What the Bleep do we Know?".  It talks a lot about quantum mechanics, and also the influence of mind on reality.  For instance, electrons passed through a filter behaved differently depending on whether or not they were being observed while passing through the filter.  The very act of observing, or adding consciousness to the equation, changed the behavior of the electrons.  They also used "hard concentration" on certain outcomes to influence probable outcomes on seemingly random events.  Mind over matter kinda stuff.  It's a fun and interesting watch

 :lulz: Look out, LMNO, he's going to tell you about quantum physics in a more technical and scholarly wording.  :lulz:
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”


The Invisible Man

  • gives people the beeps
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 29949
    • View Profile
Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #163 on: April 01, 2014, 09:53:54 pm »
Yep.  Me too.

Below the subatomic level, there is nothing but randomness.  This is as readily apparent as the earth being flat by observers around the world!  Until of course, we see around the world.

LOGICAL CHECKMATES!

Person 1: "Think for Yourself!"
Person 2: "Alright!"
Person 1: "Hmmm..."

both scratch their heads...

Person 1: "Think for Yourself!"
Person 2: "No!"

both scratch their heads...

Person 1: " Think for yourself!"
Person 2: "Shut up."

Person 2 goes back to their e-sodoku.
Person 1 is butthurt because nobody's fighting the power with them.

This reminds me of  my recent discovery that about the most offensive thing you can say to a person, be they religious, atheist, vegan, or whatever, is "I don't want to talk about your beliefs because I don't care". This is, for reasons I have not yet explored, much more offensive to most people than "I think you're wrong and I'm going to tell you why".

To consider someone wrong, you'd first have to consider them, at all.  It's almost like to refuse to even consider the position, you've denied their personhood - it would seem negation of the self is worse than possibly being wrong.

If taken to an extreme enough level, certainly. But I have noticed that even when I am willing to engage with/validate people on other topics, many people get seriously pissy with me when I don't want to talk about religion/lack thereof, because it's irrelevant to me. They seem to often feel profoundly threatened by my lack of caring about THAT ONE THING, even though I am in no other way denying their personhood.

I know people (atheists) who consider the god question the most important idea you can consider... which seems pretty depressing to me. 

Cain

  • Alea iacta est
  • Chekha
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 105049
    • View Profile
Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #164 on: April 01, 2014, 09:55:59 pm »
What's an SJW?

Social Justice Warrior.  tumblr/Garbo/etc.  It conveys the meaning without soiling the more respectable "feminist", LGBT activist", etc.

Not sure where I heard the term.  Here, I think.

May have been me.  I'm not terribly keen on the term, but it's the one which seems to have stuck and that most people recognise.