Author Topic: What the shit is all of this?  (Read 18938 times)

Cramulus

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Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #135 on: April 01, 2014, 02:43:58 pm »
I don't follow?

LMNO

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Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #136 on: April 01, 2014, 02:55:18 pm »
Quantum physics is non-intuitive.  The math works, predictions from experiments are confirmed, theories are validated. 

That doesn't mean it makes the same kind of sense that Newtonian physics does.  Things don't make "sense" in the traditional... um... sense.

Maybe we can look at it this way -- the probability field IS.  That's the way it works in QuantumLand.  But to us up here in MacroWorld, it's confusing as hell, and the only word we have for it is "random".

Faust

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Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #137 on: April 01, 2014, 03:18:25 pm »
As far as "truly random" goes, that depends on your definition.  If I predict a 60% chance of something being in a certain place at a certain time, can I say it's behavior is random?  It has a greater chance of being there than not, so maybe you could call that predictable, but since there's no way of saying for sure, wouldn't that be pretty random?


Ok, I'll grant that maybe, someday, someone might come up with a way of removing the probability fields from quantum physics.

But if that ever happens, it will pretty much tip over the apple cart, and undo the past century or so of physics as we know it.

That is to say, the probabilty of it happening is quite low.

isn't the fact that we represent it via a probability indicative that we're glossing over what's really happening?

I mean, a die rolls a given number 16.6% of the time - but it's not truly a random event, it's completely predictable if you know enough about the roll, physics, etc.

it sounds like you're saying that the perceived randomness at the center of quantum events is (probably) how it really is - that a certain degree of magnification, the universe is fundamentally random, unknowable?
Imagine the dice number and the side that is facing up were inextricably linked and the only way to describe one was to leave the other with a small level of ambiguity.

Why doesn't the energy and position behave the same way for a particle as it would for a large scale object like a stationary rock? There's a few reasons but the big one is the minimum energy of a particle. A particle can NEVER come to rest. That has knock on effects on its possible positions and energy levels and so on.

The example we had that was really good in the physics book was a tennis ball and a particle are fired at a wall. When the tennis ball touches the wall it is completely stopped and all its energy is stored as potential energy (before being released and bouncing back).

If you fire a particle at that wall it always has it's minimum energy, so it can never touch the wall, it reflects before that.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 03:20:23 pm by Faust »

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #138 on: April 01, 2014, 03:27:18 pm »
"So, Cram, did you make your saving throw?"

"Dunno."

"Goddammit, this ALWAYS happens."

 :lulz:
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
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LMNO

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Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #139 on: April 01, 2014, 03:28:18 pm »
 :lulz:

omnihil

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Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #140 on: April 01, 2014, 07:47:26 pm »
Quantum physics is non-intuitive.  The math works, predictions from experiments are confirmed, theories are validated. 

That doesn't mean it makes the same kind of sense that Newtonian physics does.  Things don't make "sense" in the traditional... um... sense.

Maybe we can look at it this way -- the probability field IS.  That's the way it works in QuantumLand.  But to us up here in MacroWorld, it's confusing as hell, and the only word we have for it is "random".
^^^
This is essentially what I was saying in more a more technical and scholarly wording.  It is not truly random, but extremely complex, possibly beyond our comprehension.  Levels of sophisticated physics at extremely microscopic levels are EXTREMELY complex and unpredictable at times.  I'm saying that patterns are capable of become increasingly complex, onward towards infinity, in a way where they will eventually transcend any conscious minds ability to perceive it's mechanics.  Chaos being that asymptote of an infinitely complex model of reality, that is only possibly perceived by a being of infinite IQ, or a godlike entity by definition of the word, omniscient. 

Have you ever seen the documentary "What the Bleep do we Know?".  It talks a lot about quantum mechanics, and also the influence of mind on reality.  For instance, electrons passed through a filter behaved differently depending on whether or not they were being observed while passing through the filter.  The very act of observing, or adding consciousness to the equation, changed the behavior of the electrons.  They also used "hard concentration" on certain outcomes to influence probable outcomes on seemingly random events.  Mind over matter kinda stuff.  It's a fun and interesting watch
« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 07:49:35 pm by omnihil »

LMNO

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Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #141 on: April 01, 2014, 07:49:46 pm »
I don't know what you thought you're saying, but it has very little to do with what I am saying.

Keep that quantum woo what the bleep crap away from me, please and thank you.

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #142 on: April 01, 2014, 07:50:29 pm »
Keep digging those heels in, Omnihil.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Invisible Man

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Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #143 on: April 01, 2014, 07:59:18 pm »
Have you ever seen the documentary "What the Bleep do we Know?".  It talks a lot about quantum mechanics

I'm not sure you should be getting your information on quantum mechanics from What the Bleep Do We Know. 

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #144 on: April 01, 2014, 07:59:27 pm »
I don't know what you thought you're saying, but it has very little to do with what I am saying.

Keep that quantum woo what the bleep crap away from me, please and thank you.

Hey.

THE DANCING WU LI MASTERS AND SHIT.

That is all.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

LMNO

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Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #145 on: April 01, 2014, 08:01:52 pm »
:crankey:

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Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #146 on: April 01, 2014, 08:02:41 pm »
Apparently Native Americans just couldn't see European tall ships out on the oceans, because... you know... ig'nant.

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #147 on: April 01, 2014, 08:03:58 pm »
:crankey:

Owed you that.

The problem with Quantum Physics is that it ISN'T intuitive, but SEEMS to be so.  Therefore, it opens itself up to all manner of hippie fucking interpretations, and is also a big sandbox for the digging in of heels.

In short, a model of reality is used by many to hide from reality.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #148 on: April 01, 2014, 08:04:45 pm »
Apparently Native Americans just couldn't see European tall ships out on the oceans, because... you know... ig'nant.

Well, they could SEE them or see where they were GOING, but not both.  So they got fucked.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Invisible Man

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Re: What the shit is all of this?
« Reply #149 on: April 01, 2014, 08:06:18 pm »
Apparently Native Americans just couldn't see European tall ships out on the oceans, because... you know... ig'nant.

Well, they could SEE them or see where they were GOING, but not both.  So they got fucked.

And yet creationists compare eyeballs to pocket watches...