Author Topic: music - what is it?  (Read 5807 times)

holist

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music - what is it?
« on: January 12, 2012, 08:06:09 pm »
in recent months, a large part of my endless musings that occupy me while i perform repetitive tasks such as driving, walking, housework and translation have been devoted to what i would term the philosophy of music, a kind of tentative prolegomena to a fundamental aesthetic and ontology of music, or, in less reprehensibly multisyllabic terms, to answering questions such as

what is music?

why do we like what we like, dislike what we dislike, and disregard what we disregard in the field of music?

what makes a good listener and what makes a good musician?

what makes a poor listener and a poor musician?

and, as heidegger may well have asked before me, why is there music at all and why is there not silence instead?

*

the whole thing got inspired by the semi-regular youtube sessions we have with a friend

he is actually a musician in that most venerable sense: he makes a living out of composing, recording and playing live

this is his band's site, and here you can see him plying his trade

for the last couple-few years this has been the routine: i visit him, we partake of illegal substances that we never partake of, and then shove pieces of music at each other on youtube - our latest finds

the thing is, though, although we get along like a house (a small house) on fire and have pretty similar outlooks on life and even respect each other as musicians, quite often we are baffled by the other's selections: while most of the time nothing seems offensive or crap, quite often we don't see what the big deal is about the offerings of the other and only rarely do we hit on something we both consider to be a true gem

and then a while back i went and showed him New Shoes by Paolo Nutini (which i thought was certainly not very serious, certainly terribly pop, but still a great deal of fun, the artless self-confidence of a young Jagger married to considerable vocal and compositional talent)

and he told me to get the fuck out of there with that tingly-tangly anglo-pop shite

for a few weeks, i was just plain offended and hurt, then i started thinking

*

eventually i came to the realisation that within the very broad field of what gets called music by someone or another, there are two basic, very different conceptions of music at work (though often both at the same time, in variable proportions), one in all likelyhood very old, the other comparatively recent, and that our experience was actually the result of a sort of tension or conflict between those two ways of experiencing and understanding music as such

for the old approach, music, the body of music that the musician and the listener both draw upon in order to get to grips with the experience of listening to music, is a part of the commons of a community (which could be as narrow as a single tribe or as wide, these days, as humanity entire) - individual musicians rely on that body of music and occasionally (or even frequently, these days) they may also add to it, but they conceive of music as a community project with a long history

for the more recent approach, creating music is a form of (individual or small group, but still) self-expression, a way of communicating a message (which can range from the rather vague "this is what i'm like when i strut my stuff" to pretty specific things such as "stop the war" or "tax the churches"), a way of letting a personality (or a few) shine through the sounds

my friend belongs in the former school of thought

i am firmly planted in the latter

hence the disagreements about what's great

*

all this, of course, has interesting repercussions for the other questions i listed at the top

i would be honoured to read your views

also, i realise that similar lines of thought must have been entertained by a large number of people before me - so i'd also be grateful for any interesting resources
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Re: music - what is it?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2012, 08:09:48 pm »
In my opinion, John Cage said it best: "Music is intended noise."

Everything else is subjective and emotionally based.
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Re: music - what is it?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2012, 08:10:27 pm »
what is music?

It is a tool of the devil.  You hear young people explain their behavior all the time..."It got inside me, the music got inside me, and I tore off all my clothes!  It got inside me and I HAD TO DO IT!"

And you parents out there, that allow this filth into your homes, you should be taken out and be HORSE-WHIPPED!

(Note:  This is an actual quote from Preacher Gormann back in the late 60s, as recorded and rebroadcast by the Church of the Subgenius.  Link on request.)
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Re: music - what is it?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2012, 08:11:22 pm »
You know what really has interesting repurcussions? 
 
A percussionist in an echo chamber.
 
 :rimshot:
 
Also I would argue that using music as a form of self-expression is far from being a "recent" innovation, and has probably been a part of music as long as there has been music. 
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Re: music - what is it?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2012, 08:23:50 pm »
In my opinion, John Cage said it best: "Music is intended noise."

Everything else is subjective and emotionally based.

Yeah, we had this discussion after I lost my shit over Autechre's Ganz Graf. This is basically where I had to concede that there's nothing really to understand, it's literally just a preference thing.
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Re: music - what is it?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2012, 08:25:04 pm »
In my opinion, John Cage said it best: "Music is intended noise."

Everything else is subjective and emotionally based.

Except the Rolling Stones Let It Bleed, which is objectively-based awesomeness.
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Re: music - what is it?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2012, 08:25:51 pm »
Its a human thing. The concept is just hardwired into us. We attach meaning to sound. Its how we communicate. Music takes that communication to a different level and makes you feel or should make you feel what the musician was communicating when the song was written.
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Re: music - what is it?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2012, 08:26:56 pm »
Its a human thing.

I dispute this on the grounds that I like music, and it has been made very clear to me that I am not, in fact, a human being.
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Re: music - what is it?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2012, 08:29:21 pm »
Same genus though. Even neanderthals liked music. :p
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Re: music - what is it?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2012, 08:31:00 pm »
Same genus though. Even neanderthals liked music. :p

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Re: music - what is it?
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2012, 08:32:23 pm »
Music is like you need an excuse to play with your 303, 808 and vocoder.

All the rest is just contrast noise because you can't truly appreciate something without having observed the lack of it.

This is musically described in the song You don't know what you got till it's gone, which for that reason only does not feature a 303, 808 or even a vocoder.

John Cage tried to make the same point with that silence music of his, but you can tell he's thinking about the sweet overtones and lowpass resonant frequencies of his beloved 303 the whole time.
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Re: music - what is it?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2012, 08:34:54 pm »
So what youre saying is that you like industrial music and its "buzz saw guitars"

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Re: music - what is it?
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2012, 08:38:17 pm »
This is musically described in the song You don't know what you got till it's gone, which for that reason only does not feature a 303, 808 or even a vocoder.

You're talking about the Cinderella song right?  Just asking cause I never would have figured you for someone who would be into that kind of song.
 
Also, that song would sound weird with a vocoder.  It's a sappy love song but Kieffer's glass-gargling rasp makes it interesting. 
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Re: music - what is it?
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2012, 08:50:37 pm »
This is musically described in the song You don't know what you got till it's gone, which for that reason only does not feature a 303, 808 or even a vocoder.

You're talking about the Cinderella song right?  Just asking cause I never would have figured you for someone who would be into that kind of song.
 
Also, that song would sound weird with a vocoder.  It's a sappy love song but Kieffer's glass-gargling rasp makes it interesting.

I dunno what version I was thinking of, there's a lot of covers of it, afaik.

*checks*

No. No it was definitely not that song :eek:

Now I got to find it but I only know that one line. Something more soul-like, and it was on one of my parents' CDs, afaik. It's also not something that is really "my style", but a good song.

Neither would sound very good with a vocoder, I'd agree.
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Re: music - what is it?
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2012, 08:56:37 pm »
Joni Mitchell.  Only it's actually called "Big Yellow Taxi".
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Buy the Chao te Ching, or be doomed forever.

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"Get offa me, you freaks!  This is not North Korea.  No.  This is America, and I expect to be PAID for that sort of nonsense.  In advance.  No credit...Cash on the barrelhead or GTFO.  I swear to God, there's nothing more annoying than commie perverts who don't understand the intrinsic value of the free market system."