Author Topic: Common Walls Debate  (Read 6673 times)

The Right Reverend Nigel

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Re: Common Walls Debate
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2012, 04:20:57 pm »
Net, I think that either you have no idea what you're talking about, or you're letting your hard-on for Roger get in the way of reason. I don't think that Cram is an idiot at all, but I do think that for some reason, on some level, he just really doesn't understand why certain things aren't actually OK, like reposting other people's work on his website without asking (which he just did the other day, and when politely called on it, responded with "I'll take it down if you want"), or selling copies of Intermittens (full of other people's work) for beer money.

A history of appropriating behavior makes it reasonable to draw a clear boundary. There are a couple of people I won't work with and don't want closely involved in projects I care about, specifically because of their tendency to appropriate other people's work.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”

“People get used to anything. The less you think about your oppression, the more your tolerance for it grows. After a while, people just think oppression is the normal state of things. But to become free, you have to be acutely aware of being a slave.”
― Assata Shaku

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Common Walls Debate
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2012, 04:22:28 pm »
Nigel, Net isn't interested in the actual facts of the situation.  It's "ROGER BAAAAAAAAAD!"

I could be arguing against slavery, and he'd defend the slave owners.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Re: Your Very Own Holy Book (TM)
« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2012, 04:23:24 pm »
In the same way, Cram just grabbed the editor role

The editor role had been filled.  But that doesn't count, right?
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AFK

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Re: Common Walls Debate
« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2012, 04:36:08 pm »
Meh, I think Cram was just trying to help keep things moving, didn't see him trying to poach anything.  Just trying to lend a hand.  A pretty experienced hand I would say.  He really has been the lifeblood to a lot of stuff around here.  I think things are being blown WAY out of proportion, which I suppose is part of PD's charm.  I really don't think dumping on his character is necessary, he's been very straightforward with his intention. 
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The Rev

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Re: Common Walls Debate
« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2012, 04:36:57 pm »
Meh, I think Cram was just trying to help keep things moving, didn't see him trying to poach anything.  Just trying to lend a hand.  A pretty experienced hand I would say.  He really has been the lifeblood to a lot of stuff around here.  I think things are being blown WAY out of proportion, which I suppose is part of PD's charm.  I really don't think dumping on his character is necessary, he's been very straightforward with his intention.

I agree.

The Right Reverend Nigel

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Re: Common Walls Debate
« Reply #50 on: February 22, 2012, 04:44:25 pm »
Meh, I think Cram was just trying to help keep things moving, didn't see him trying to poach anything.  Just trying to lend a hand.  A pretty experienced hand I would say.  He really has been the lifeblood to a lot of stuff around here.  I think things are being blown WAY out of proportion, which I suppose is part of PD's charm.  I really don't think dumping on his character is necessary, he's been very straightforward with his intention.

I agree.

I like Cram. I'm not dumping on his character. He's also really good at getting projects going, or at least taking them and running with them. But he's done some questionable things and I am not going to be shamed for talking about them as a form of explanation for why I found it reasonable to lay a strong boundary with regards to a project.

I can be the bad guy if that's what you want, but that doesn't change my reasons for thinking a boundary is appropriate.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”

“People get used to anything. The less you think about your oppression, the more your tolerance for it grows. After a while, people just think oppression is the normal state of things. But to become free, you have to be acutely aware of being a slave.”
― Assata Shaku

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Common Walls Debate
« Reply #51 on: February 22, 2012, 05:26:21 pm »
Well, I suppose "hijacking a project" is "helping out", if you're one of the cook kids.

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Freeky Queen of DERP

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Re: Re: Your Very Own Holy Book (TM)
« Reply #52 on: February 22, 2012, 05:30:53 pm »
I'm gonna back Nigel and Roger on this one.  Even if it was accidental, he was pretty much speaking as if he were the go-to guy for the project. 

So either there's something to that, or ZOMG MIND LAZORS.

You're taking it out of context. Cram's doing that out in the open, which is a critical difference. In collaborative efforts you don't privately submit your writing to everyone first for their approval—you just post it. In the same way, Cram just grabbed the editor role and Roger and Nigel acted like it was an irreversible crime that requires character assassination.

I don't get what you're saying.  LMNO already had the editor role, as was already said.  Now, I may be just a teensy bit on the sensitive side about such things, but until LMNO weighed in I saw it as usurpation. 

At the very least, Cram's post wouldn't have been so inflammatory if he had said "We should see if everyone thinks Common Walls is ready for this!" and have not said what he did in response to "Isn't it kind of not done?" because it wasn't his baby to begin with.
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Freeky Queen of DERP

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Re: Common Walls Debate
« Reply #53 on: February 22, 2012, 05:31:11 pm »
Well, I suppose "hijacking a project" is "helping out", if you're one of the cook kids.

No, fuck that.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Common Walls Debate
« Reply #54 on: February 22, 2012, 05:32:27 pm »
Meh, I think Cram was just trying to help keep things moving, didn't see him trying to poach anything.  Just trying to lend a hand.  A pretty experienced hand I would say.  He really has been the lifeblood to a lot of stuff around here.  I think things are being blown WAY out of proportion, which I suppose is part of PD's charm.  I really don't think dumping on his character is necessary, he's been very straightforward with his intention.

OKAY, FUCK IT.

I will now test this fucking hypothesis by "lending a hand" whenever and however I see fit, with no fucking regard or respect for anyone else.

And I'm going to be straightforward as hell about it.

But, of course, he IS the "lifeblood" of PD, and all creativity that happens here, so I may not be a good control subject.
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Freeky Queen of DERP

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Re: Common Walls Debate
« Reply #55 on: February 22, 2012, 05:33:16 pm »
Well, I suppose "hijacking a project" is "helping out", if you're one of the cook kids.

Fuck that especially because the cool kids can get away with it. 
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AFK

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Re: Common Walls Debate
« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2012, 05:43:22 pm »
Meh, I think Cram was just trying to help keep things moving, didn't see him trying to poach anything.  Just trying to lend a hand.  A pretty experienced hand I would say.  He really has been the lifeblood to a lot of stuff around here.  I think things are being blown WAY out of proportion, which I suppose is part of PD's charm.  I really don't think dumping on his character is necessary, he's been very straightforward with his intention.

OKAY, FUCK IT.

I will now test this fucking hypothesis by "lending a hand" whenever and however I see fit, with no fucking regard or respect for anyone else.

And I'm going to be straightforward as hell about it.

But, of course, he IS the "lifeblood" of PD, and all creativity that happens here, so I may not be a good control subject.

Okay, if you need to go on with the exaggeration thing go ahead but it's pretty clear what I specifically said and I stand behind it 100%.  I didn't say he was the life blood of everything.  I said he was the lifeblood of "a lot".  And I think that is true. 

But if it makes you feel better I think you are the lifeblood of a lot of stuff around here too.  I kinda figure that goes without saying.  But Cram was the one getting dumped on in this thread for what was, at best, a misunderstanding.  He deserves a hell of a lot better than that.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Common Walls Debate
« Reply #57 on: February 22, 2012, 05:45:39 pm »
Meh, I think Cram was just trying to help keep things moving, didn't see him trying to poach anything.  Just trying to lend a hand.  A pretty experienced hand I would say.  He really has been the lifeblood to a lot of stuff around here.  I think things are being blown WAY out of proportion, which I suppose is part of PD's charm.  I really don't think dumping on his character is necessary, he's been very straightforward with his intention.

OKAY, FUCK IT.

I will now test this fucking hypothesis by "lending a hand" whenever and however I see fit, with no fucking regard or respect for anyone else.

And I'm going to be straightforward as hell about it.

But, of course, he IS the "lifeblood" of PD, and all creativity that happens here, so I may not be a good control subject.

Okay, if you need to go on with the exaggeration thing go ahead but it's pretty clear what I specifically said and I stand behind it 100%.  I didn't say he was the life blood of everything.  I said he was the lifeblood of "a lot".  And I think that is true. 

But if it makes you feel better I think you are the lifeblood of a lot of stuff around here too.  I kinda figure that goes without saying.  But Cram was the one getting dumped on in this thread for what was, at best, a misunderstanding.  He deserves a hell of a lot better than that.

Naw, RWHN.  I'm the VILLAIN.  The Bad Guy.  Obviously, I did what I did simply to impede the LIFEBLOOD OF PD.

I'm done fucking arguing about it.  Believe what you want to believe.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Common Walls Debate
« Reply #58 on: February 22, 2012, 05:48:58 pm »
Oh, and I won't be getting involved in any more arguments over creative control or any other shit like that, unless it's an actual admin decision.  I'm not paid for this fucking grief, so I'm not tolerating it.

I'm also not taking part in any more so-called "collaborative" efforts.  The stuff that is in Common Walls stays, but from now on, I'm not getting on board with ANY group project, because apparently that means handing it over to whomever decides to fucking seize it.  Er, I mean "help it along".

That is all.  You may now continue explaining why Cram is a fucking saint, and everything I do is fucking evil & wrong.
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Ållnephew Tvýðleþøn

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Re: Common Walls Debate
« Reply #59 on: February 22, 2012, 06:04:03 pm »
Meh, I think Cram was just trying to help keep things moving, didn't see him trying to poach anything.  Just trying to lend a hand.  A pretty experienced hand I would say.  He really has been the lifeblood to a lot of stuff around here.  I think things are being blown WAY out of proportion, which I suppose is part of PD's charm.  I really don't think dumping on his character is necessary, he's been very straightforward with his intention.

I agree.

I disagree.
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