Author Topic: Any relevance for religion?  (Read 15504 times)

Kai

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Any relevance for religion?
« on: March 13, 2012, 11:11:23 pm »
Talking with an old friend yesterday, he brought up that he thought religion, despite being pretty much false, has a necessary place in the human world. I immediately disagreed, but I wanted to ask that question here, because I'm looking for new insights.

Does religion serve a necessary place in the human world? Is it relevant in an age of science where what were formerly the most profound questions are now answered (e.g. where does the sun go at night?)?

And on that note, would Discordianism fit into that necessity or lack thereof and why?
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Doktor Howl

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2012, 11:17:08 pm »
Talking with an old friend yesterday, he brought up that he thought religion, despite being pretty much false, has a necessary place in the human world. I immediately disagreed, but I wanted to ask that question here, because I'm looking for new insights.

Does religion serve a necessary place in the human world? Is it relevant in an age of science where what were formerly the most profound questions are now answered (e.g. where does the sun go at night?)?

And on that note, would Discordianism fit into that necessity or lack thereof and why?

I think the majority of humans need religion.  It assures them that someone, somewhere, is awake and at the controls...And also tells them that there is an arch-alpha, which gives them somewhere to stand in the greater pack.

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2012, 11:19:52 pm »
Religious faith has a demonstrated psychological benefits for humans. I don't know exactly how to compare the amount of good it does to the amount of harm, but it's definitely something our brains seem to want.
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Doktor Howl

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2012, 11:21:01 pm »
Discordianism, on the other hand, seems to reassure certain freak primates that, in fact, everyone's in the club car, and nobody's driving the train.

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2012, 11:22:00 pm »
It seems sort of arrogant: I don't need religion, but those other people do. But I think it is, in some sense, true.

I don't think people could just quit religion. A lot of them would miss the comfort and community they had. But this isn't that humans in general need religion, it's just that those people are used to it, and would have a hard time without.

Largeish communities of like minded people, be it a church, a bar with a lot of regulars, or a mensa chapter, do seem like a really good idea.

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2012, 11:28:43 pm »
It seems sort of arrogant: I don't need religion, but those other people do. But I think it is, in some sense, true.


Who said I don't need religion?

Kai

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2012, 11:41:33 pm »
Talking with an old friend yesterday, he brought up that he thought religion, despite being pretty much false, has a necessary place in the human world. I immediately disagreed, but I wanted to ask that question here, because I'm looking for new insights.

Does religion serve a necessary place in the human world? Is it relevant in an age of science where what were formerly the most profound questions are now answered (e.g. where does the sun go at night?)?

And on that note, would Discordianism fit into that necessity or lack thereof and why?

I think the majority of humans need religion.  It assures them that someone, somewhere, is awake and at the controls...And also tells them that there is an arch-alpha, which gives them somewhere to stand in the greater pack.

So, is hierarchical structure a requirement of human well being?
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Kai

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2012, 11:43:35 pm »
Religious faith has a demonstrated psychological benefits for humans. I don't know exactly how to compare the amount of good it does to the amount of harm, but it's definitely something our brains seem to want.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson once said that he wanted someone to hook his brain up to a machine and see how it looks when he contemplates profound truths about the universe as revealed by science, and see if it compares to religious experiences.

If those experiences are comparable, then is religion necessary for that psychological benefit?
If there is magic on this planet, it is contained in water. --Loren Eisley, The Immense Journey

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Doktor Howl

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2012, 11:44:23 pm »
Talking with an old friend yesterday, he brought up that he thought religion, despite being pretty much false, has a necessary place in the human world. I immediately disagreed, but I wanted to ask that question here, because I'm looking for new insights.

Does religion serve a necessary place in the human world? Is it relevant in an age of science where what were formerly the most profound questions are now answered (e.g. where does the sun go at night?)?

And on that note, would Discordianism fit into that necessity or lack thereof and why?

I think the majority of humans need religion.  It assures them that someone, somewhere, is awake and at the controls...And also tells them that there is an arch-alpha, which gives them somewhere to stand in the greater pack.

So, is hierarchical structure a requirement of human well being?

I think it's absolutely necessary, as demonstrated by the fact that people will always generate one.

We are primates, thus we are jumped-up pack animals.  A pack requires a heirarchy to function.  Hell, that's why the founders created the office of the president...So the rubes would think there was a king.  63% of Americans think the president can fire a congressman.


Doktor Howl

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2012, 11:46:10 pm »
Religious faith has a demonstrated psychological benefits for humans. I don't know exactly how to compare the amount of good it does to the amount of harm, but it's definitely something our brains seem to want.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson once said that he wanted someone to hook his brain up to a machine and see how it looks when he contemplates profound truths about the universe as revealed by science, and see if it compares to religious experiences.

If those experiences are comparable, then is religion necessary for that psychological benefit?

Because science, as the Subgenii say, does not replace the terror of the gods.

Humans understand that it's a big, cold universe and that they will die.  Psychologically, this is intolerable, so there is a need for some belief in the continuation of our existences after death.  Science doesn't answer that need.

Kai

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2012, 11:47:05 pm »
I'm going to come out and say it: I don't think I need religion.

I need community, and that doesn't necessitate religion.

I need some sort of profound questions or answers (or both) to contemplate, but I can get those from science and reality, I don't need myths.

I need principles under which to operate, but I can find and use these without religious doctrine.

Now, what is left. If hierarchy is it, then there seems to be better ways of having it.
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Kai

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2012, 11:48:37 pm »
Religious faith has a demonstrated psychological benefits for humans. I don't know exactly how to compare the amount of good it does to the amount of harm, but it's definitely something our brains seem to want.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson once said that he wanted someone to hook his brain up to a machine and see how it looks when he contemplates profound truths about the universe as revealed by science, and see if it compares to religious experiences.

If those experiences are comparable, then is religion necessary for that psychological benefit?

Because science, as the Subgenii say, does not replace the terror of the gods.

Humans understand that it's a big, cold universe and that they will die.  Psychologically, this is intolerable, so there is a need for some belief in the continuation of our existences after death.  Science doesn't answer that need.

You say humans, which seems to be a generalization, but that doesn't explain why I don't. If it is intolerable, then how do I exist? How do the many other people who reject "terror of the gods" exist?
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Doktor Howl

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2012, 11:49:57 pm »
I'm going to come out and say it: I don't think I need religion.

I need community, and that doesn't necessitate religion.

I need some sort of profound questions or answers (or both) to contemplate, but I can get those from science and reality, I don't need myths.

I need principles under which to operate, but I can find and use these without religious doctrine.

Now, what is left. If hierarchy is it, then there seems to be better ways of having it.

Yes, and I know many other people that feel the same way...But they are by no means in the majority.  And though I don't think this is what you're doing, there is no difference between sneering at people who need religion, and religious people insisting that you cannot have morals or ethics without a belief in a higher power (I mention this because I do know people who sneer at those who require religion).

To every cat his rat...And if religion helps billions of people get through the night, who am I to tell them they're wrong?

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2012, 11:50:38 pm »
Religious faith has a demonstrated psychological benefits for humans. I don't know exactly how to compare the amount of good it does to the amount of harm, but it's definitely something our brains seem to want.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson once said that he wanted someone to hook his brain up to a machine and see how it looks when he contemplates profound truths about the universe as revealed by science, and see if it compares to religious experiences.

If those experiences are comparable, then is religion necessary for that psychological benefit?

Because science, as the Subgenii say, does not replace the terror of the gods.

Humans understand that it's a big, cold universe and that they will die.  Psychologically, this is intolerable, so there is a need for some belief in the continuation of our existences after death.  Science doesn't answer that need.

You say humans, which seems to be a generalization, but that doesn't explain why I don't. If it is intolerable, then how do I exist? How do the many other people who reject "terror of the gods" exist?

When I say "humans", I am of course referring to the vast bulk of humanity.  Outliers exist in every human behavior.

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Re: Any relevance for religion?
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2012, 11:53:20 pm »
Talking with an old friend yesterday, he brought up that he thought religion, despite being pretty much false, has a necessary place in the human world. I immediately disagreed, but I wanted to ask that question here, because I'm looking for new insights.

Does religion serve a necessary place in the human world? Is it relevant in an age of science where what were formerly the most profound questions are now answered (e.g. where does the sun go at night?)?

And on that note, would Discordianism fit into that necessity or lack thereof and why?

I think the majority of humans need religion.  It assures them that someone, somewhere, is awake and at the controls...And also tells them that there is an arch-alpha, which gives them somewhere to stand in the greater pack.

So, is hierarchical structure a requirement of human well being?

I think it's absolutely necessary, as demonstrated by the fact that people will always generate one.

We are primates, thus we are jumped-up pack animals.  A pack requires a heirarchy to function.  Hell, that's why the founders created the office of the president...So the rubes would think there was a king.  63% of Americans think the president can fire a congressman.
Dok nailed it. in the absence of hierarchy, hierarchy will be created, even so little as "there can be only one boss, and that's me".

Religious faith has a demonstrated psychological benefits for humans. I don't know exactly how to compare the amount of good it does to the amount of harm, but it's definitely something our brains seem to want.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson once said that he wanted someone to hook his brain up to a machine and see how it looks when he contemplates profound truths about the universe as revealed by science, and see if it compares to religious experiences.

If those experiences are comparable, then is religion necessary for that psychological benefit?

Because science, as the Subgenii say, does not replace the terror of the gods.

Humans understand that it's a big, cold universe and that they will die.  Psychologically, this is intolerable, so there is a need for some belief in the continuation of our existences after death.  Science doesn't answer that need.
Also, ding. People fear non-existence. This has never computed for me, but so, so many times, people say that if there is no sort of afterlife, nor a soul of some sort, than nothing makes sense to them, and they are in fetal balls on the floor.  But then, these are generally the same people who claim that only humans have ouls in the first place, but I think that's getting a bit off topic. Anyway.. I don't know where I was going with that.