Lockers and school and drugs and drugs and drugs

[Doktor Howl]

We had lockers.  I stopped using mine after about 6 months.

And FYI, I think an institution paid for by taxpayer money and that you are required by law to attend being referred to as "private property" is stretching the already notoriously abused meanings of that phrase to breaking point.

The personal possessions kept within the locker by a civilian US citizen are private property, and by any reasonable reading of the US Constitution should be exempt from unreasonable search and seizure.

Of course, THAT concept went out the window what, 30 years ago?

At the very least

"We hear about constitutional rights, free speech and the free press. Every time I hear those words I say to myself, That man is a Red, that man is a Communist. You never heard a real American talk in that manner."

- Frank Hague

Frank Hague (January 17, 1876 – January 1, 1956) was an American Democratic Party politician who served as the mayor of Jersey City, New Jersey from 1917 to 1947, Democratic National Committeeman from New Jersey from 1922 until 1949, and Vice-Chairman of the Democratic National Committee from 1924 until 1949.

That has always been my 3rd favorite political quote, after:

"If the president does it, it can't be a crime."
- Richard Milhaus Nixon

and

"We can't just let everyone run around unregulated, you know."
- Martha Mitchell

[Doktor Howl]

If shit goes down in a school, parents aren't going to sue taxpayers.  They are going to sue Superintendents and building administrators. 

And sure, the items a person stores inside of a locker are private property, but the locker itself is not, the school building is not.  There are "codes of conduct" for all kinds of locations, and one of those codes certainly is "what you can and cannot" bring into the building, and for good reason, like say, public safety.

As a parent, I want the administrators of my school to have the ability to head shit off at the pass before it ends up posing harm to my kids.  Now, I also would want them to use restraint and reason and not go out of their way to cause trouble for any particular kids.  Especially given that often the "good kids" can be involved in shit just as much as the "bad kids."

I love the inherent lesson for our kids that you just posted.

[Doktor Howl]

We have that here in the States already, and the schools will tell you it is within their rights because it is school property, which is true.  However, there are limitations.  So they can use drug dogs to check out lockers and anything within the school.  However, they can't do anything about students' cars in the parking lot.  Not without just cause.  So, it ends up being ineffective because the kids who do bring drugs to school are just going to keep them in their cars.

I'm going to argue that the very idea of a locker implies an expectation of privacy.

Ultimately, it is still school property, and doesn't belong to the student.  And if a student were storing, say, a weapon, and that weapon was used to commit a crime onschool property, that school would be exposed to some liability, not to mention the school's duty to ensure a proper learning environment.  As such, I think they have just cause, and good reason, to police contents.


Now, I think they should strive for an ethic of having probable cause to search a locker, and unless ther is a rampant issue of drugs on school property, restraint should be used as far as when andhow searches a conducted.

My safe deposit box belongs to the bank.  You need a warrant to look in it, unless I allow you to.

[stelz]

We padlocked ours, and they stayed the fuck out of them. Now there's cameras in the fucking bathrooms.

Of course we mostly turned out to be insubordinate WalMart-worker material, but not enraged enough to torture people in Gitmo. They won't be making that mistake anymore.

[six to the quixotic]

https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/05/19

Though the hour was late, Yemen’s social media was still very much awake.

A US drone’s missiles had just slammed into a convoy of vehicles in a remote part of Yemen, killing three alleged militants.

The attack – like all other US drone strikes outside warzones – was supposed to be clandestine. Yet within minutes Sanaa-based lawyer Haykal Bafana was reporting the strike in almost-realtime.

The US military being tracked by people with cell phones.
Fucking Twitter.

[Misery's Feed Trough]

If shit goes down in a school, parents aren't going to sue taxpayers.  They are going to sue Superintendents and building administrators. 

And sure, the items a person stores inside of a locker are private property, but the locker itself is not, the school building is not.  There are "codes of conduct" for all kinds of locations, and one of those codes certainly is "what you can and cannot" bring into the building, and for good reason, like say, public safety.

As a parent, I want the administrators of my school to have the ability to head shit off at the pass before it ends up posing harm to my kids.  Now, I also would want them to use restraint and reason and not go out of their way to cause trouble for any particular kids.  Especially given that often the "good kids" can be involved in shit just as much as the "bad kids."

I love the inherent lesson for our kids that you just posted.

What, that public safety is important?

[Misery's Feed Trough]

We have that here in the States already, and the schools will tell you it is within their rights because it is school property, which is true.  However, there are limitations.  So they can use drug dogs to check out lockers and anything within the school.  However, they can't do anything about students' cars in the parking lot.  Not without just cause.  So, it ends up being ineffective because the kids who do bring drugs to school are just going to keep them in their cars.

I'm going to argue that the very idea of a locker implies an expectation of privacy.

Ultimately, it is still school property, and doesn't belong to the student.  And if a student were storing, say, a weapon, and that weapon was used to commit a crime onschool property, that school would be exposed to some liability, not to mention the school's duty to ensure a proper learning environment.  As such, I think they have just cause, and good reason, to police contents.


Now, I think they should strive for an ethic of having probable cause to search a locker, and unless ther is a rampant issue of drugs on school property, restraint should be used as far as when andhow searches a conducted.

My safe deposit box belongs to the bank.  You need a warrant to look in it, unless I allow you to.

Your safe deposit box isnt in a hallway with hundreds of kids walking by it everyday. 

[LMNO, PhD (life continues)]

Quick question:  Why would someone want to bring drugs into a school, anyway?  I mean, it's pretty obvious that a school is one of the least private, most scrutinized, highest risk places to try and do illeagal shit.  Keep your drugs at home, kids.  Or in the park.

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

At my old High School they didnt just search lockers they searched cars too. One kid had a hunting knife that was an inch over the legal limit in the trunk of his car and he got expelled for having a weapon on school property.

[Misery's Feed Trough]

Quick question:  Why would someone want to bring drugs into a school, anyway?  I mean, it's pretty obvious that a school is one of the least private, most scrutinized, highest risk places to try and do illeagal shit.  Keep your drugs at home, kids.  Or in the park.

If they're smart, not many of them.  But it still seems to happen.  For example, in my county, 1 out of 4 high school kids report they have been offered, sold, or given illegal drugs on school property. 

[LMNO, PhD (life continues)]

I suppose this is why I could never be a true dirtbag when I was growing up.  I just couldn't believe how unerringly stupid they were being.  Even if they did score with all the chicks.

[M. Nigel Salt]

We had lockers.  I stopped using mine after about 6 months.

And FYI, I think an institution paid for by taxpayer money and that you are required by law to attend being referred to as "private property" is stretching the already notoriously abused meanings of that phrase to breaking point.

The personal possessions kept within the locker by a civilian US citizen are private property, and by any reasonable reading of the US Constitution should be exempt from unreasonable search and seizure.

Of course, THAT concept went out the window what, 30 years ago?

At the very least

"We hear about constitutional rights, free speech and the free press. Every time I hear those words I say to myself, That man is a Red, that man is a Communist. You never heard a real American talk in that manner."

- Frank Hague

Frank Hague (January 17, 1876 – January 1, 1956) was an American Democratic Party politician who served as the mayor of Jersey City, New Jersey from 1917 to 1947, Democratic National Committeeman from New Jersey from 1922 until 1949, and Vice-Chairman of the Democratic National Committee from 1924 until 1949.

 

[M. Nigel Salt]

If shit goes down in a school, parents aren't going to sue taxpayers.  They are going to sue Superintendents and building administrators. 

And sure, the items a person stores inside of a locker are private property, but the locker itself is not, the school building is not.  There are "codes of conduct" for all kinds of locations, and one of those codes certainly is "what you can and cannot" bring into the building, and for good reason, like say, public safety.

As a parent, I want the administrators of my school to have the ability to head shit off at the pass before it ends up posing harm to my kids.  Now, I also would want them to use restraint and reason and not go out of their way to cause trouble for any particular kids.  Especially given that often the "good kids" can be involved in shit just as much as the "bad kids."

I love the inherent lesson for our kids that you just posted.

There are codes of conduct hurr in Amurrakuh! 

[Cain]

If shit goes down in a school, parents aren't going to sue taxpayers.  They are going to sue Superintendents and building administrators. 

And sure, the items a person stores inside of a locker are private property, but the locker itself is not, the school building is not.  There are "codes of conduct" for all kinds of locations, and one of those codes certainly is "what you can and cannot" bring into the building, and for good reason, like say, public safety.

As a parent, I want the administrators of my school to have the ability to head shit off at the pass before it ends up posing harm to my kids.  Now, I also would want them to use restraint and reason and not go out of their way to cause trouble for any particular kids.  Especially given that often the "good kids" can be involved in shit just as much as the "bad kids."

1.  I never said that.  Are you going to argue what I actually said, or are you going to put strawmen in my mouth?

2.  Sure, many places have a code of conduct.  But you're not legally required to attend those places, unless you've broken the law.  Which is kinda my point.  Schoolchildren are being treated as de facto criminals. 

3.  Parents make all kinds of unreasonable demands and wants from school officials.  If you believe I have to deny the right of privacy to every student without good reason, I'm going to chuck that on the pile of idiotic demands from parents, such as "give me records of my child's movements for the past three months" and "escort my 19 year old son to the school's gates, every day". 

[Cain]

Oh FFS.  I'm done with this thread.  Your fundamentalist pedantry makes me highly discinlined to carry on this conversation in any way.