Author Topic: Something I rushed off  (Read 9237 times)

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Something I rushed off
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2012, 05:51:09 pm »
If we invented AI we would be abdicating our position on the food chain. Whether that AI turns out to be good or bad, we have effectively said we are done being in charge, and asked for a God to come down from heaven (or out of a wire) and please lead us by the nose, thank you. And that's something I can totally see us doing, for a lot of reasons. And you'd think I would have a strong opposition to that, but I don't.

Left to our own devices, we are going to fuck the planet and kill each other until the Sun turns into a red giant and cooks everything on Earth. That's just our identity, and any pretending we are capable of anything more than passing phases of higher reasoning is just wrong. It may be that our evolutionary destiny is to realize (or for some of us to realize) that we are incapable of transcending ourselves before we destroy ourselves. An AI master in charge of the future of Humanity has a high probability of doing a better job than we will. Even if it murders us all in the process, at least we will have the honor of knowing we directly created our evolutionary successor.

Balls.  I'd rather the human race puked and died.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
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Tiddleywomp Cockletit

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Re: Something I rushed off
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2012, 05:54:13 pm »
Yeah, that sounded a lot like "OK, AI, YOU'RE IN CHARGE! ABUSE ME TO DEATH!"
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Something I rushed off
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2012, 05:55:07 pm »
Yeah, that sounded a lot like "OK, AI, YOU'RE IN CHARGE! ABUSE ME TO DEATH!"

Even if it was entirely benevolent, I'd still take a fucking axe to the mainframe.

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Tiddleywomp Cockletit

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Re: Something I rushed off
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2012, 05:56:33 pm »
Yeah, that sounded a lot like "OK, AI, YOU'RE IN CHARGE! ABUSE ME TO DEATH!"

Even if it was entirely benevolent, I'd still take a fucking axe to the mainframe.

Yep.
A benevolent overlord is still an overlord.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Something I rushed off
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2012, 05:58:53 pm »
Yeah, that sounded a lot like "OK, AI, YOU'RE IN CHARGE! ABUSE ME TO DEATH!"

Even if it was entirely benevolent, I'd still take a fucking axe to the mainframe.

Yep.
A benevolent overlord is still an overlord.

It's not even that.  Man is meant to be free, and that means making your own decisions and mistakes.

If you're not free to fail, you're not free.  And if you're not free, then what's the point?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: Something I rushed off
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2012, 06:00:49 pm »
If we invented AI we would be abdicating our position on the food chain. Whether that AI turns out to be good or bad, we have effectively said we are done being in charge, and asked for a God to come down from heaven (or out of a wire) and please lead us by the nose, thank you. And that's something I can totally see us doing, for a lot of reasons. And you'd think I would have a strong opposition to that, but I don't.

Left to our own devices, we are going to fuck the planet and kill each other until the Sun turns into a red giant and cooks everything on Earth. That's just our identity, and any pretending we are capable of anything more than passing phases of higher reasoning is just wrong. It may be that our evolutionary destiny is to realize (or for some of us to realize) that we are incapable of transcending ourselves before we destroy ourselves. An AI master in charge of the future of Humanity has a high probability of doing a better job than we will. Even if it murders us all in the process, at least we will have the honor of knowing we directly created our evolutionary successor.

Balls.  I'd rather the human race puked and died.

Then who cares if robots take over? I think there's something to be said for the finest moments of human experience and creativity, but at the other end of the spectrum is all the evil we do. And past that is the apathy. The human spirit is strong when it needs to be, but the march of history shows us, time and again, trying our damnedest to make sure that our spirit never needs to be strong. Eventually, we will probably succeed in that endeavor, one way or another.

The ultimate achievement, to create an intelligence greater and more resilient than our own, would be the first achievement that could truly be shared by all of us -- because all of us -- rich, poor, smart, dumb, tall, fat, skinny, smudgy, white, black -- all of us would be rendered completely obsolete and unnecessary. And we could, at least for the few moments before the atmosphere ignites, breathe the long, final sigh and think, "so this is how it ends."

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Something I rushed off
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2012, 06:02:16 pm »
If we invented AI we would be abdicating our position on the food chain. Whether that AI turns out to be good or bad, we have effectively said we are done being in charge, and asked for a God to come down from heaven (or out of a wire) and please lead us by the nose, thank you. And that's something I can totally see us doing, for a lot of reasons. And you'd think I would have a strong opposition to that, but I don't.

Left to our own devices, we are going to fuck the planet and kill each other until the Sun turns into a red giant and cooks everything on Earth. That's just our identity, and any pretending we are capable of anything more than passing phases of higher reasoning is just wrong. It may be that our evolutionary destiny is to realize (or for some of us to realize) that we are incapable of transcending ourselves before we destroy ourselves. An AI master in charge of the future of Humanity has a high probability of doing a better job than we will. Even if it murders us all in the process, at least we will have the honor of knowing we directly created our evolutionary successor.

Balls.  I'd rather the human race puked and died.

Then who cares if robots take over? I think there's something to be said for the finest moments of human experience and creativity, but at the other end of the spectrum is all the evil we do. And past that is the apathy. The human spirit is strong when it needs to be, but the march of history shows us, time and again, trying our damnedest to make sure that our spirit never needs to be strong. Eventually, we will probably succeed in that endeavor, one way or another.

The ultimate achievement, to create an intelligence greater and more resilient than our own, would be the first achievement that could truly be shared by all of us -- because all of us -- rich, poor, smart, dumb, tall, fat, skinny, smudgy, white, black -- all of us would be rendered completely obsolete and unnecessary. And we could, at least for the few moments before the atmosphere ignites, breathe the long, final sigh and think, "so this is how it ends."

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Unnecessary for what?
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: Something I rushed off
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2012, 06:13:11 pm »
If we invented AI we would be abdicating our position on the food chain. Whether that AI turns out to be good or bad, we have effectively said we are done being in charge, and asked for a God to come down from heaven (or out of a wire) and please lead us by the nose, thank you. And that's something I can totally see us doing, for a lot of reasons. And you'd think I would have a strong opposition to that, but I don't.

Left to our own devices, we are going to fuck the planet and kill each other until the Sun turns into a red giant and cooks everything on Earth. That's just our identity, and any pretending we are capable of anything more than passing phases of higher reasoning is just wrong. It may be that our evolutionary destiny is to realize (or for some of us to realize) that we are incapable of transcending ourselves before we destroy ourselves. An AI master in charge of the future of Humanity has a high probability of doing a better job than we will. Even if it murders us all in the process, at least we will have the honor of knowing we directly created our evolutionary successor.

Balls.  I'd rather the human race puked and died.

Then who cares if robots take over? I think there's something to be said for the finest moments of human experience and creativity, but at the other end of the spectrum is all the evil we do. And past that is the apathy. The human spirit is strong when it needs to be, but the march of history shows us, time and again, trying our damnedest to make sure that our spirit never needs to be strong. Eventually, we will probably succeed in that endeavor, one way or another.

The ultimate achievement, to create an intelligence greater and more resilient than our own, would be the first achievement that could truly be shared by all of us -- because all of us -- rich, poor, smart, dumb, tall, fat, skinny, smudgy, white, black -- all of us would be rendered completely obsolete and unnecessary. And we could, at least for the few moments before the atmosphere ignites, breathe the long, final sigh and think, "so this is how it ends."

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Unnecessary for what?

Unnecessary for the act of carrying forward the torch of sentience and intelligence in a universe full of things that are only dimly aware, if at all. Although I doubt we are strictly necessary for that now, we seem to think we are.

Also more on line with Cain's OP: If warfare wants to disguise itself as politics and outright war disguises itself as peace isn't it equal to peace? Even if that peace is borne of the manipulation of thoughts, isn't it preferable to the horrors of war? My line of reasoning with AI isn't to turn this into a simple "are robots good or bad" topic, but to question the ethics of maintaining individual identity at the expense of popular wellfare. I don't necessarily disagree with it, but can we say with certainty that evolution isn't pushing us toward a collective "intelligence," artificial or not, that would need to supersede and eventually replace the one we know?
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Tiddleywomp Cockletit

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Re: Something I rushed off
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2012, 06:16:16 pm »
"Collective intelligence" sounds like the Borg. Or an ant hill. I don't see it as more evolved.
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Re: Something I rushed off
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2012, 06:17:31 pm »
Not to say that devolving isn't possible.

WE ARE NOT MEN, WE ARE DEVO!
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Re: Something I rushed off
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2012, 06:20:12 pm »
"Collective intelligence" sounds like the Borg. Or an ant hill. I don't see it as more evolved.
of course you and idon't.  but WE will...  :p

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Re: Something I rushed off
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2012, 06:24:38 pm »
"Collective intelligence" sounds like the Borg. Or an ant hill. I don't see it as more evolved.
of course you and idon't.  but WE will...  :p

 :lulz:  :horrormirth:
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tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: Something I rushed off
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2012, 06:28:13 pm »
"Collective intelligence" sounds like the Borg. Or an ant hill. I don't see it as more evolved.
of course you and idon't.  but WE will...  :p

 :lulz:  :horrormirth:

I'm almost having an idea for something now. I'll wait for further instructions from the Mother Brain to see what develops
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: Something I rushed off
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2012, 06:29:39 pm »
Unnecessary for the act of carrying forward the torch of sentience and intelligence in a universe full of things that are only dimly aware, if at all. Although I doubt we are strictly necessary for that now, we seem to think we are.

That is not an end in itself.  To exist strictly to exist is not a purpose.

Also more on line with Cain's OP: If warfare wants to disguise itself as politics and outright war disguises itself as peace isn't it equal to peace? Even if that peace is borne of the manipulation of thoughts, isn't it preferable to the horrors of war? My line of reasoning with AI isn't to turn this into a simple "are robots good or bad" topic, but to question the ethics of maintaining individual identity at the expense of popular wellfare. I don't necessarily disagree with it, but can we say with certainty that evolution isn't pushing us toward a collective "intelligence," artificial or not, that would need to supersede and eventually replace the one we know?

Peace, as Jerry Pournelle pointed out, is something we infer because there are sometimes intervals between wars.  Peace is also not always a desirable thing, given the nature of humans.

And individual identity is what makes us what we are.  Developing that identity is the only worthwhile pursuit of a human being...And is not by any means mutually exclusive with the general welfare of the species.

Lastly, I don't see any indication that we are forming a collective intelligence as a species, local events notwithstanding.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

tyrannosaurus vex

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Re: Something I rushed off
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2012, 06:44:22 pm »
Unnecessary for the act of carrying forward the torch of sentience and intelligence in a universe full of things that are only dimly aware, if at all. Although I doubt we are strictly necessary for that now, we seem to think we are.

That is not an end in itself.  To exist strictly to exist is not a purpose.

Also more on line with Cain's OP: If warfare wants to disguise itself as politics and outright war disguises itself as peace isn't it equal to peace? Even if that peace is borne of the manipulation of thoughts, isn't it preferable to the horrors of war? My line of reasoning with AI isn't to turn this into a simple "are robots good or bad" topic, but to question the ethics of maintaining individual identity at the expense of popular wellfare. I don't necessarily disagree with it, but can we say with certainty that evolution isn't pushing us toward a collective "intelligence," artificial or not, that would need to supersede and eventually replace the one we know?

Peace, as Jerry Pournelle pointed out, is something we infer because there are sometimes intervals between wars.  Peace is also not always a desirable thing, given the nature of humans.

And individual identity is what makes us what we are.  Developing that identity is the only worthwhile pursuit of a human being...And is not by any means mutually exclusive with the general welfare of the species.

Lastly, I don't see any indication that we are forming a collective intelligence as a species, local events notwithstanding.

I don't mean a Borg consciousness or anything out of sci fi. What I mean is that systems (political/military/social) are growing larger and more interconnected and interdependent. These systems draw on the intentions of populations worldwide and therefore have a vested interest in shaping those intentions. Media and other propagandist organs grow to shelter the population and feed it the information necessary to grow its intentions and concerns in the desired direction. In some sense this could be referred to as a collective intelligence.

And no, it isn't always mutually exclusive with the general welfare of the species, except when those larger constructs we have created to oversee our general welfare begin to see individualism as a threat. There isn't anything inherently dangerous about being yourself but that doesn't mean the system isn't wired to see it as a threat anyway, for one reason or another.
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