Author Topic: Ethnic cognitive disparities.  (Read 1507 times)

(Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight)

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 243838
  • DEATH METAL ENGLISH
    • View Profile
Ethnic cognitive disparities.
« on: June 15, 2012, 06:19:51 am »
This is probably the best forum for this.

You're two conflicting things. Discuss the conflict here.

I was raised, in the United States, in Boston, which is a very Irish city in the US.

My mother is Irish and Scottish by heritage, and as German as Scottish. But she is American, and her parents are/were American (my grandfather is dead, my granmother, though failing, is alive). My father is an Irish immigrant. He doesn't speak much about politics but he named me after a martyr. There's a rebel song about my name-sake and my naming, providing I turned out male (I am the eldest of 3, and the only surprise gender), was politically motivated regardless, after much debate (pretty humorous too). Only one sibling (Midsister) has a non-Irish name  (it's Danish).

Now, aside from being someone who had pretty good access to his genealogy and doesn't have to supplement his whiteness with any tales of Native blood (you are what you are. If you can prove it, bully. If not, shut up), I don't mind telling you that I am an Irish nationalist. I am also a staunch unionist.

What the fuck you talking about Twid?

Ok. I would like to see a united Ireland in my lifetime (I say unification, because I have no illusions about our history. The only time we were unified was when we were part of the British Empire. There can be no reunification by definition). But I want to see it by democratic means. I want those other six counties to vote to be a part of the Republic. The war is over. I've said it before, active IRA units are waging a war of conquest. Just friggin' listen to their accents. They have more in common with Scotland than with us.

Everyone has the right to democratically choose their government. If the majority of Ulster wants to be part of the United Kingdom, let them. If you're American, shut up. If you are (part of the Republic) Irish, shut up. If you're Northern Irish, speak up. I suspect the breeding trend will cause unification anyway.

But beware! When unification happens, you will regret it, because your TroublesTM will be equal but reversed. Nothing will change except the constitution you have. You will have angry Unionists. Very angry Unionists. The only difference is that the Republicans will have a slight majority. You are an entirely different country now. England saw to that in 1922. The division was GENIUS. You used to be Irish. Now you don't think so. More power to you.

My name-sake died for his country. And he died young. And he got it. Maybe not all 32 counties but he became a symbol. A rallying point. His death was ABHORRENT. He totally deserved it though. He was a traitor and a terrorist, and he killed members of the military that represented his Empire. But if a bunch of bumpkins to the west want to secede, let them. But close enough. We have Poblacht na hEireann noew. If you now consider yourselves separate in the "Kingdom of Ireland", just as I do, have at it. My name-sake died for the Republic that he never saw. You don't have to.

Nationalists, put down your fucking guns and vote. Unionists, put down your fucking guns and vote (and stop using my favorite band's mascot as your own). We'll see how this pans out in the future. And if you don't want to be part of the Republic, fuck you and God bless at the same time. We don't need you anyway. Jameson tastes better than LaPhroaig and you're a liar if you say otherwise.

This, right here, is a load of American bullshit, in South Boston, no less:


The equation is wrong. It should be Northern Ireland - (Republic of Ireland + United Kingdom) = Freedom.

Find your own way, Kingdom of Ireland. I, for one, have negative interest in annexing you, especially by violent means.

Sincerely,
-Caoimhin de Barra O Maoilchiarain
Filthy Sex Jewel of the Mechanically Recovered Meat Industry
Sentence or sentence fragment pending[/size]

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

(Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight)

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 243838
  • DEATH METAL ENGLISH
    • View Profile
Re: Ethnic cognitive disparities.
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2012, 07:18:34 am »
I also like the ring of Caoimhin de Barra O Maoilchiarain (KWEE-veen jeh-BAHR-ruh OH MWEEL-kheeuh-rawn, as opposed to my English name. I always disliked my middle name except it Irish. Barry is such a silly sounding name.
Filthy Sex Jewel of the Mechanically Recovered Meat Industry
Sentence or sentence fragment pending[/size]

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

Placid Dingo

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 27259
    • View Profile
    • Me!
Re: Ethnic cognitive disparities.
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2012, 08:32:09 am »
I find nationalism too silly to give it much though. That said I guess everyone has a vision of how they want their nation to be. I know I talk a lot about how Australia is more part of Asia than the West.
If sheep entrails could in any way be related to the weather, i.e. sheep trails only originate where it rains, then you could use it as an accurate model for discerning what the weathers going to be like. Either, sheep shit makes it rain, or raining makes sheep shit. Sheep don't shit "randomly" sheep shit after they eat, it doesn't rain "randomly" it rains after water collects in the atmosphere.

P3nT4gR4m

  • Official SSOOKN Pariah
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 64797
  • I'm an artist now - isn't that depressing?
    • View Profile
    • fuck you
Re: Ethnic cognitive disparities.
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2012, 09:17:45 am »
Scotland is mumbling something about independence and referendumbs and such bullshit again. The nationalists are beating their skinny little ribcages and demanding we remember what happened in 16-whatever. I'm more 'meh' that I'd thought was humanly possible. I'm only scottish when people from not round these parts notice my accent. The rest of the time I'm a one man nation. I'm fucking P3nTish and fiercely proud of it!

So they're asking me to vote (again) for some bullshit about should we be ripped off by a bunch of fat lazy useless fucks with english accents or should we strike out on our own and be ripped off by a bunch of fat lazy useless fucks with scottish accents (posh ones mind you - you can hardly tell them apart from the southerners)

I'll be too fucking busy chugging a beer and smoking a joint, on some remote island to worry too much about who rules the rock I'm sitting on. As far as I can tell, it's me.
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.

High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.

Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"And National Geographic got interested because National Geographic has the theory that the last century, discovery was basically finding things, and in this century, discovery is basically making things."-- Stewart Brand

I'll get my coat.

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 51901
    • View Profile
Re: Ethnic cognitive disparities.
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 10:42:31 am »
As an English-born half Irish person, who hatehatehated the funding of terrorism in NI and the rest of the UK by Irish Americans, I am totally in agreement. Unless you are entitled to an Irish passport you can GTFO.  Unification is something for the people of Northern Ireland to decide by democratic means. I understand that the funding pretty much dried up after 9/11 and at the time I was a little mean and considered it karmic.

The Troubles, when leaking over to the mainland UK, caused no end of trouble and prejudice for those with Irish surnames and accents.  My mum has told me stories of the late 70's and early 80's, when the butcher wouldn't call her by her married name like he did the other women, because he was afraid she would get harassed. I remember being 14 and being intently interested in the Good Friday agreement, and cheering when it was announced.

As for P3nt's point about Scottish nationalism, I kind of understand the reasoning and history behind it, and as Scottish politics are quite left-wing, the SNP scare me a whole metric fucktonne less than the BNP and the EDL.  Hell, as an English person if I lived there I would vote for them! I hope that if they do break the Union, they do it after I've moved up there and I can escape the Tories!  It's somewhat silly for a nation to be affected by the policies of a government that they haven't voted in. Devolution and the Scottish Parliament have somewhat lessened that now, sure, but I can see why the Scots find it galling.

P3nT4gR4m

  • Official SSOOKN Pariah
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 64797
  • I'm an artist now - isn't that depressing?
    • View Profile
    • fuck you
Re: Ethnic cognitive disparities.
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2012, 11:10:59 am »

I understand that the funding pretty much dried up after 9/11 and at the time I was a little mean and considered it karmic.


This! First thing that went through my head when I heard about the towers being hit was - Thank fucking christ, now (with a bit of luck) the US, right up to government level might realise that terrorism isn't cute and romantic.

IRA fell apart about a month later and, although now we have a whole clusterfuck of imported Anti-TERRUR dumbfuckery going on all over the place, at least we feel safe walking in and out of supermarkets now.

Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.

High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.

Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"And National Geographic got interested because National Geographic has the theory that the last century, discovery was basically finding things, and in this century, discovery is basically making things."-- Stewart Brand

Lenin McCarthy

  • Outlandish
  • ***
  • Posts: 7623
    • View Profile
Re: Ethnic cognitive disparities.
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 11:48:08 am »
I am the result of
50% inbred peasants from an isolated valley in eastern Norway since at least the 1500s (in the 1590s my great-x12-great-grandfather tried to assassinate two consecutive local preachers. :lulz: ).
25% working-class city dwellers (my great-grandfather (not genetically, he was just a really nice guy who fell in love with my great-grandmother and claimed fatherhood for her "illegitimate" child) was a cemetery gardener and my great-grandmother did waiting and housekeeping jobs) who gave birth to a twisted genius (my grandfather) who somehow managed to become a doctor.
25% farmers and carpenters from western Norway who mostly emigrated, became missionaries in Africa or Nazis (my great-grandfather was close to becoming Minister of Education and Church Affairs in the occupation government).

Apply safe middle-class upbringing in dull provincial town.


AFK

  • We all
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 73111
    • View Profile
Re: Ethnic cognitive disparities.
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2012, 11:54:13 am »
Interesting thread and a fascinating read. The closest thing I have to this is my French-Canadian heritage and the stuff around Quebec's attempts to secede from Canada, but of course, being American, it really has little immediate bearing on me.  Tough, I suppose it has the potential to impact up in Northern Maine where I grew up. There is a large reliance on Canadian business in that part of the state including Quebecois.
Cynicism is a blank check for failure.

Verbal Mike

  • EVIL JOO
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 18693
  • This Time, It's Personal
    • View Profile
Re: Ethnic cognitive disparities.
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2012, 02:53:06 pm »
Hmm... I'm Israeli... 25% German Jew, the roots of which branch were in Spain via Portugal and Holland; 25% Russian Jew who came to the Holy Land in the 18/19th century for religious reasons; 50% East-Coast and Midwest American Jew, the roots of which were all over Eastern Europe, but oddly enough some roots crossed between the two halves of that side in some tiny town in Lithuania.

I've always thought nationalism is ridiculous at best but usually outright dangerous, but like a lot of Israeli lefties I feel at the same time that if the Palestinians want to be a "nation" nobody has a right to stop them trying (but that anyone who uses violence for liberation has personally forfeited the moral high ground and should expect violent retribution.)

I don't know much about the Ireland situation, but from what I gather it's a really amazing example which Israelis and Palestinians have much to learn from.

(I'm actually not sure what this thread is *about* but this seemed like an appropriate collection of comments. Indeed a fascinating read.)
Unless stated otherwise, feel free to copy or reproduce any text I post anywhere and any way you like. I will never throw a hissy-fit over it, promise.

P3nT4gR4m

  • Official SSOOKN Pariah
  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 64797
  • I'm an artist now - isn't that depressing?
    • View Profile
    • fuck you
Re: Ethnic cognitive disparities.
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2012, 03:01:37 pm »

I don't know much about the Ireland situation, but from what I gather it's a really amazing example which Israelis and Palestinians have much to learn from.


Pretty straightforward, really. Blow up enough pubs and supermarkets and they'll give you a seat in parliament.
Awful and Bent Behemothic Results of Last Night's Painful Squat.

High Altitude Haggis-Filled Sex Bucket From Beyond Time and Space.

Internet Monkey Person of Filthy and Immoral Pygmy-Porn Wart Contagion
Octomom Auxillary Heat Exchanger Repairman
walking the fine line line between genius and batshit fucking crazy

"And National Geographic got interested because National Geographic has the theory that the last century, discovery was basically finding things, and in this century, discovery is basically making things."-- Stewart Brand

(Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight)

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 243838
  • DEATH METAL ENGLISH
    • View Profile
Re: Ethnic cognitive disparities.
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2012, 03:11:00 pm »
The irish situation in a nutshell- about 800 years ago the island was made up of petty kingdoms. One king wanted military assistance from england and england smirked and took the whole place. At some point they rewarded scottish protestants land in ulster (the northern province). So now these scots are irish but loyal to britain. Irish people want to secede scots irish dont. It is somewhat comparable to israel with a few more centuries thrown in as well as the concept of union with an empire. Oh and around world war 1 the brits got sick of our every fifty year uprisings and said sure have your own country but were partitioning it. The irish military couldnt sustain the war so they accepted the terms but still claimed the north. Enter terroist activity.
Filthy Sex Jewel of the Mechanically Recovered Meat Industry
Sentence or sentence fragment pending[/size]

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

(Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight)

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 243838
  • DEATH METAL ENGLISH
    • View Profile
Re: Ethnic cognitive disparities.
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2012, 03:13:01 pm »
And this thread is about personal interests and or opinions that conflict with some label attached to you. It was inspired by nigel mentioning that her interests as a native american dont always align with her interests as an african american. If i remember correctly. I was rocking the cheap rot gut last night.
Filthy Sex Jewel of the Mechanically Recovered Meat Industry
Sentence or sentence fragment pending[/size]

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

(Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight)

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 243838
  • DEATH METAL ENGLISH
    • View Profile
Re: Ethnic cognitive disparities.
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2012, 03:18:35 pm »
In my case im an irish american living in boston who has been instilled with nationalist sentiment but i shrugged it off at some point and said hey its their call. Not bostons and not irelands. Theirs alone. Siad Fein (themselves) to make a pun on the nationalist party Sinn Fein (ourselves).
Filthy Sex Jewel of the Mechanically Recovered Meat Industry
Sentence or sentence fragment pending[/size]

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS

The Good Reverend Roger

  • Tarantism Victim
  • One-Armed Jizz Moppers
  • Deserved It
  • **
  • Posts: 34378
    • View Profile
Re: Ethnic cognitive disparities.
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2012, 03:29:25 pm »
Cornish.  All my people wear boots to bed and hate everyone.

Which should be obvious.
"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way, and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theatre."
- Frank Zappa

(Doktor (Nephew Twiddleton (Twid)) Blight)

  • Deserved It
  • ****
  • Posts: 243838
  • DEATH METAL ENGLISH
    • View Profile
Re: Ethnic cognitive disparities.
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2012, 03:32:45 pm »
You forgot about the pasties.
Filthy Sex Jewel of the Mechanically Recovered Meat Industry
Sentence or sentence fragment pending[/size]

Soy El Vaquero Peludo de Oro

TIM AM I, PRIMARY OF THE EXTRA-ATMOSPHERIC SIMIANS