i am your ENEMY

[Luna]

...and then there are guys that seem to be good genuinely good guys that wonder why an attractive woman won't pay them a second thought.

Jesus FUCK, just listen to yourself.

I mean, really, how the fuck did the world get to a point where anybody thinks they can "pick up" another person, like they're going to the goddamn store to pick up a loaf of bread?

"Oh, poor me, I'm such a NICE guy, why won't the pretty girls pay attention to me?"  Maybe because the "pretty" girls aren't interested in somebody who just sees them as the "attractive women."

If you can't get your eyes off her boobs, trust me, the ones worth a damn won't give you the time of day.  SHE knows her own value, and knows she deserves better than bullshit games.

For the record, if you have ever referred to picking up women as a "game," of any kind, you pretty much deserve to spend the rest of your life fapping into a dirty sock, unless and until you get your head out of your ass.

[stelz]

...and then there are guys that seem to be good genuinely good guys that wonder why an attractive woman won't pay them a second thought.

Jesus FUCK, just listen to yourself.

I mean, really, how the fuck did the world get to a point where anybody thinks they can "pick up" another person, like they're going to the goddamn store to pick up a loaf of bread?

"Oh, poor me, I'm such a NICE guy, why won't the pretty girls pay attention to me?"  Maybe because the "pretty" girls aren't interested in somebody who just sees them as the "attractive women."

If you can't get your eyes off her boobs, trust me, the ones worth a damn won't give you the time of day.  SHE knows her own value, and knows she deserves better than bullshit games.

For the record, if you have ever referred to picking up women as a "game," of any kind, you pretty much deserve to spend the rest of your life fapping into a dirty sock, unless and until you get your head out of your ass.

Once again proving Nigel's point that the Luna one is a good one.

Putting on some fake act to get your dick wet: we've seen it 1000 times by the time we're fifteen, FFS.

[Pope Lecherous]

WTF, is this place turning into the last refuge of the hopeless? 

Am i hopeless?  Is it ridiculous to believe that men can learn how to pick up women and in the process develop traits that will help them in other areas of life?  Is it ridiculous to believe that someone can learn these whatever "lessons" they might have to learn from these courses, but have a moral code of their own so they can meet the ethical standards of PD and... you know, not abuse women or get into relationships with abusive women?

Your answer to abusive relationships is PUA techniques?
STFU.

No.  My answer to abusive relationships is to first, avoid them and if you find that you are in one to have enough respect for yourself to get out of it.  PUA techniques are the least important thing one can take away from learning how to pick up women.  Developing the fundamentals is more important.  As pointed out you don't have to go to one of these seminars to learn these things.  Some people choose to do so.  Other people choose to learn tricks to get a woman into bed and it's not surprising when they graduate, if they develop any skill, that their life's problems have not been solved because they are still shitty people.  Quit fucking crying.  It's a tool.  It can be used positively, with positive intents AND for positive ends and it can be used for quite the opposite. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

and then there are guys that seem to be good genuinely good guys that wonder why an attractive woman won't pay them a second thought.

Nigel answered this one, some time ago.

If you're interested, I'll paraphrase what she had to say.

[Pope Lecherous]

...and then there are guys that seem to be good genuinely good guys that wonder why an attractive woman won't pay them a second thought.

Jesus FUCK, just listen to yourself.

I mean, really, how the fuck did the world get to a point where anybody thinks they can "pick up" another person, like they're going to the goddamn store to pick up a loaf of bread?

People do it every weekend in cities all over the world and guess what, not every time is a poor woman tricked into spreading her legs for some chump who knows PUA tricks.  Sometimes people find that they are mutually attracted to one another and are open about the fact that the fun is for the night.  Other times girls get their hearts broken and end up feeling used by douche bags.  Is this the value we should have for another human being? No.  Can two adults have a sexual encounter without degrading one or BOTH parties as human beings?  I think so.

"Oh, poor me, I'm such a NICE guy, why won't the pretty girls pay attention to me?"  Maybe because the "pretty" girls aren't interested in somebody who just sees them as the "attractive women."

If you can't get your eyes off her boobs, trust me, the ones worth a damn won't give you the time of day.  SHE knows her own value, and knows she deserves better than bullshit games.

These are not the only type of person who might need help with women.

For the record, if you have ever referred to picking up women as a "game," of any kind, you pretty much deserve to spend the rest of your life fapping into a dirty sock, unless and until you get your head out of your ass.

Men have treated pickup as a game or a challenge.  Sometimes men pursue a woman for sex and sometimes they are pursuing their vision of an ideal person to be with.  Two ends of the spectrum and women also fit there. Some women are looking for a good lay without complications and some are pursuing a Disney fantasy relationship with the man of their dreams.  Why do these things have to be wrong?  They don't. You can achieve these goals without hurting people and it can be done with integrity. This can be learned.

If a person is a shitty person to begin with, fixing what makes them fucked up can be lumped in with "learning how to pick up women."

[stelz]

WTF, is this place turning into the last refuge of the hopeless? 

Am i hopeless?  Is it ridiculous to believe that men can learn how to pick up women and in the process develop traits that will help them in other areas of life?  Is it ridiculous to believe that someone can learn these whatever "lessons" they might have to learn from these courses, but have a moral code of their own so they can meet the ethical standards of PD and... you know, not abuse women or get into relationships with abusive women?

Your answer to abusive relationships is PUA techniques?
STFU.

No.  My answer to abusive relationships is to first, avoid them and if you find that you are in one to have enough respect for yourself to get out of it.  PUA techniques are the least important thing one can take away from learning how to pick up women.  Developing the fundamentals is more important.  As pointed out you don't have to go to one of these seminars to learn these things.  Some people choose to do so.  Other people choose to learn tricks to get a woman into bed and it's not surprising when they graduate, if they develop any skill, that their life's problems have not been solved because they are still shitty people.  Quit fucking crying.  It's a tool.  It can be used with positively, with positive intents AND for positive ends and it can be used for quite the opposite.

"Crying"?  What planet are you on?

Newsflash: Learn to walk on your hind legs. Bullshit tools are bullshit.

[stelz]

and then there are guys that seem to be good genuinely good guys that wonder why an attractive woman won't pay them a second thought.

Nigel answered this one, some time ago.

If you're interested, I'll paraphrase what she had to say.

Badly needs to be reiterated ITT, IMHO.

[Pope Lecherous]

WTF, is this place turning into the last refuge of the hopeless? 

Am i hopeless?  Is it ridiculous to believe that men can learn how to pick up women and in the process develop traits that will help them in other areas of life?  Is it ridiculous to believe that someone can learn these whatever "lessons" they might have to learn from these courses, but have a moral code of their own so they can meet the ethical standards of PD and... you know, not abuse women or get into relationships with abusive women?

Your answer to abusive relationships is PUA techniques?
STFU.

No.  My answer to abusive relationships is to first, avoid them and if you find that you are in one to have enough respect for yourself to get out of it.  PUA techniques are the least important thing one can take away from learning how to pick up women.  Developing the fundamentals is more important.  As pointed out you don't have to go to one of these seminars to learn these things.  Some people choose to do so.  Other people choose to learn tricks to get a woman into bed and it's not surprising when they graduate, if they develop any skill, that their life's problems have not been solved because they are still shitty people.  Quit fucking crying.  It's a tool.  It can be used with positively, with positive intents AND for positive ends and it can be used for quite the opposite.

"Crying"?  What planet are you on?

Newsflash: Learn to walk on your hind legs. Bullshit tools are bullshit.

If the tools are bullshit they are bullshit and don't work.  If the tools are bullshit the tools are bullshit and they might work to get somebody laid but won't fix their problems with themselves or with women.  That doesn't mean that picking up women is a bad thing.  Doing it consistent with actual human principles is what matters.  If someone can become a better person doing this i'm all for it.

[Pope Lecherous]

and then there are guys that seem to be good genuinely good guys that wonder why an attractive woman won't pay them a second thought.

Nigel answered this one, some time ago.

If you're interested, I'll paraphrase what she had to say.

I'm semi-interested.  I'm also of the belief that if a person wants to be with someone they find physically attractive they should go for it.  I also believe that ff that's all they are seeking then they have more problems than ignorance of modern courting techniques.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Christ, he really IS a PUA-tard.

Forget my offer to explain.

Christ.  "Mystery's show".   

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm semi-interested. 

Then go watch "Mystery's show".  Maybe he will tell you.

Or maybe he'll offer the answer on easy credit terms.

[Pope Lecherous]

Christ, he really IS a PUA-tard.

Forget my offer to explain.

Christ.  "Mystery's show".   

I'm not a PUA-tard. I just dont think it's the devil. I put it in the same category as martial arts.  It may draw people for the wrong reasons and especially draw the wrong kinds of people, but people CAN come out of it better

[Freeky Queen of DERP]

Martial arts draws more people for the right reasons (self defense, physical activity, make news friends, etc.) than does pick up artistry.  The only people who are successful at pick up artistry are, without exception, complete and utter shitnecks, because the basic principles involved reduce women to a statistic, and the greatest weapons in their arsenal rely on negative attention.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Christ, he really IS a PUA-tard.

Forget my offer to explain.

Christ.  "Mystery's show".   

I'm not a PUA-tard. I just dont think it's the devil.

No, of course not.  Manipulating certain types of women into bed is perfectly normal and commendable behavior.  Negging is something that everyone should do.  Just being yourself is for suckers.  Just being nice is also for suckers.

FACT:  Within 10 minutes of meeting you, at the outside, a woman has a pretty good idea if she's attracted to you.  Whether or not she does anything about this may take longer.  PUA is based on the idea that you can manipulate a woman into bed by breaking her down, or even in some parts of the "technique" sexual assault, rather than simply allow her to make up her own mind.

It isn't about "self-confidence".  If it was, "negging" and "force the kiss" (or whatever it's called) would not be fucking necessary.  Learning to TALK to people is about "self-confidence".  Learning to manipulate the sort of person who responds to manipulation is no different, morally, than getting that person falling-down drunk and going to town.  Or hell, even doing the roofie thing.  The ONLY difference is the method used against the person.

You don't need a defense against abusive people.  You ARE an abusive person.  You've just managed to lie to yourself about it.

[stelz]

WTF, is this place turning into the last refuge of the hopeless? 

Am i hopeless?  Is it ridiculous to believe that men can learn how to pick up women and in the process develop traits that will help them in other areas of life?  Is it ridiculous to believe that someone can learn these whatever "lessons" they might have to learn from these courses, but have a moral code of their own so they can meet the ethical standards of PD and... you know, not abuse women or get into relationships with abusive women?

Your answer to abusive relationships is PUA techniques?
STFU.

No.  My answer to abusive relationships is to first, avoid them and if you find that you are in one to have enough respect for yourself to get out of it.  PUA techniques are the least important thing one can take away from learning how to pick up women.  Developing the fundamentals is more important.  As pointed out you don't have to go to one of these seminars to learn these things.  Some people choose to do so.  Other people choose to learn tricks to get a woman into bed and it's not surprising when they graduate, if they develop any skill, that their life's problems have not been solved because they are still shitty people.  Quit fucking crying.  It's a tool.  It can be used with positively, with positive intents AND for positive ends and it can be used for quite the opposite.

"Crying"?  What planet are you on?

Newsflash: Learn to walk on your hind legs. Bullshit tools are bullshit.

If the tools are bullshit they are bullshit and don't work.  If the tools are bullshit the tools are bullshit and they might work to get somebody laid but won't fix their problems with themselves or with women.  That doesn't mean that picking up women is a bad thing.  Doing it consistent with actual human principles is what matters.  If someone can become a better person doing this i'm all for it.

PUA techniques work on women who are borderline retarded, or else the kind of women who go after guys with gold chains, usually hoping they'll pass out so they can be rolled. I suppose there are very rare cases where being an asshole who fucks mentally defective women, or an asshole who plays cat-and-mouse with larcenous women, or the kind of woman who looks for assholes to rob, eventually creates such a high level of self-disgust that the subject makes an effort to become a better person. Generally, though, these people die assholes.