Author Topic: i am your ENEMY  (Read 13809 times)

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: i am your ENEMY
« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2012, 08:39:19 pm »
It may draw people for the wrong reasons and especially draw the wrong kinds of people, but people CAN come out of it better

No.  They can't.
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Tiddleywomp Cockletit

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Re: i am your ENEMY
« Reply #61 on: July 26, 2012, 08:40:13 pm »
Christ, he really IS a PUA-tard.

Forget my offer to explain.

Christ.  "Mystery's show".   :lulz:

I'm not a PUA-tard. I just dont think it's the devil. I put it in the same category as martial arts.  It may draw people for the wrong reasons and especially draw the wrong kinds of people, but people CAN come out of it better

:spittake:
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Tiddleywomp Cockletit

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Re: i am your ENEMY
« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2012, 08:42:06 pm »
Christ, he really IS a PUA-tard.

Forget my offer to explain.

Christ.  "Mystery's show".   :lulz:

I'm not a PUA-tard. I just dont think it's the devil.

No, of course not.  Manipulating certain types of women into bed is perfectly normal and commendable behavior.  Negging is something that everyone should do.  Just being yourself is for suckers.  Just being nice is also for suckers.

FACT:  Within 10 minutes of meeting you, at the outside, a woman has a pretty good idea if she's attracted to you.  Whether or not she does anything about this may take longer.  PUA is based on the idea that you can manipulate a woman into bed by breaking her down, or even in some parts of the "technique" sexual assault, rather than simply allow her to make up her own mind.

It isn't about "self-confidence".  If it was, "negging" and "force the kiss" (or whatever it's called) would not be fucking necessary.  Learning to TALK to people is about "self-confidence".  Learning to manipulate the sort of person who responds to manipulation is no different, morally, than getting that person falling-down drunk and going to town.  Or hell, even doing the roofie thing.  The ONLY difference is the method used against the person.

You don't need a defense against abusive people.  You ARE an abusive person.  You've just managed to lie to yourself about it.

Also THIS.
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Pope Lecherous

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Re: i am your ENEMY
« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2012, 08:45:43 pm »
Problem is, as far as I can tell, the PUA guides are largely designed to prevent anyone from getting laid, ever. I've been approached by guys who are clearly relying on them, and my immediate reaction is "oh, get real". Those guys would be better off going to a therapy group to learn how to relate to people in general.

I really respect your opinion, especially about all things women.
--- War to the knife, knife to the hilt.

Freeky

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Re: i am your ENEMY
« Reply #64 on: July 26, 2012, 08:46:47 pm »
WTF, is this place turning into the last refuge of the hopeless?  :x

Am i hopeless?  Is it ridiculous to believe that men can learn how to pick up women and in the process develop traits that will help them in other areas of life?  Is it ridiculous to believe that someone can learn these whatever "lessons" they might have to learn from these courses, but have a moral code of their own so they can meet the ethical standards of PD and... you know, not abuse women or get into relationships with abusive women?

Your answer to abusive relationships is PUA techniques?
STFU.

No.  My answer to abusive relationships is to first, avoid them and if you find that you are in one to have enough respect for yourself to get out of it.  PUA techniques are the least important thing one can take away from learning how to pick up women.  Developing the fundamentals is more important.  As pointed out you don't have to go to one of these seminars to learn these things.  Some people choose to do so.  Other people choose to learn tricks to get a woman into bed and it's not surprising when they graduate, if they develop any skill, that their life's problems have not been solved because they are still shitty people.  Quit fucking crying.  It's a tool.  It can be used with positively, with positive intents AND for positive ends and it can be used for quite the opposite.

"Crying"?  :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: What planet are you on?

Newsflash: Learn to walk on your hind legs. Bullshit tools are bullshit.

If the tools are bullshit they are bullshit and don't work.  If the tools are bullshit the tools are bullshit and they might work to get somebody laid but won't fix their problems with themselves or with women.  That doesn't mean that picking up women is a bad thing.  Doing it consistent with actual human principles is what matters.  If someone can become a better person doing this i'm all for it.

PUA techniques work on women who are borderline retarded

That is beyond unfair, Stella.  Just because a woman is broken and falls for it doesn't mean they're fucking stupid.
If someone does the ďFine, youíre right, Iím clearly a terrible person, Iím Satan, Iím the worst person alive, I should just dieĒ thing in response to criticism of their harmful behavior, they are trying to manipulate people and flip the situation around so that they look like a victim.

As a neuroscientist I have to disagree with the perception that anyone is doing mathematical modeling of cognitive intelligence, yet; intelligence as an economist defines it, yes, but economists are worlds away from actual cognition.


Although it is outside the purview of this organization to offer personal advice, we can say -- without assuming any liability -- that previous experience indicates (and recent market studies corroborate) that given the present condition of the marketplace, continuing with your present course of action is likely to result in substantial in

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: i am your ENEMY
« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2012, 08:48:55 pm »
Problem is, as far as I can tell, the PUA guides are largely designed to prevent anyone from getting laid, ever. I've been approached by guys who are clearly relying on them, and my immediate reaction is "oh, get real". Those guys would be better off going to a therapy group to learn how to relate to people in general.

I really respect your opinion, especially about all things women.

Naw.  You don't respect women at all.

But why would you have to, when Mystery can tell you all about women?  And how to find the busted ones and take advantage of them.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Pope Lecherous

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Re: i am your ENEMY
« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2012, 08:56:39 pm »
Problem is, as far as I can tell, the PUA guides are largely designed to prevent anyone from getting laid, ever. I've been approached by guys who are clearly relying on them, and my immediate reaction is "oh, get real". Those guys would be better off going to a therapy group to learn how to relate to people in general.

I really respect your opinion, especially about all things women.

Naw.  You don't respect women at all.

But why would you have to, when Mystery can tell you all about women?  And how to find the busted ones and take advantage of them.

When did i say i was a pick up artist?  I'm not.  I don't attempt to conceal who i am or trick anyone into liking me.  As you can see.  I treat all people with a basic level of respect.  I do respect Nigel.  She's obviously very intelligent and she knows what she's talking about.  She stated one reason she doesn't support PUA systems and it's perfectly legit.

If there is such a program that can help men find relationships and women with good character and doesn't employ the kind of techniques you mentioned previously i'm all for it.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: i am your ENEMY
« Reply #67 on: July 26, 2012, 08:57:56 pm »

If there is such a program that can help men find relationships and women with good character and doesn't employ the kind of techniques you mentioned previously i'm all for it.

But failing that, negging and borderline or actual sexual assault will have to do?

" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Tiddleywomp Cockletit

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Re: i am your ENEMY
« Reply #68 on: July 26, 2012, 09:01:21 pm »
WTF, is this place turning into the last refuge of the hopeless?  :x

Am i hopeless?  Is it ridiculous to believe that men can learn how to pick up women and in the process develop traits that will help them in other areas of life?  Is it ridiculous to believe that someone can learn these whatever "lessons" they might have to learn from these courses, but have a moral code of their own so they can meet the ethical standards of PD and... you know, not abuse women or get into relationships with abusive women?

Your answer to abusive relationships is PUA techniques?
STFU.

No.  My answer to abusive relationships is to first, avoid them and if you find that you are in one to have enough respect for yourself to get out of it.  PUA techniques are the least important thing one can take away from learning how to pick up women.  Developing the fundamentals is more important.  As pointed out you don't have to go to one of these seminars to learn these things.  Some people choose to do so.  Other people choose to learn tricks to get a woman into bed and it's not surprising when they graduate, if they develop any skill, that their life's problems have not been solved because they are still shitty people.  Quit fucking crying.  It's a tool.  It can be used with positively, with positive intents AND for positive ends and it can be used for quite the opposite.

"Crying"?  :lulz: :lulz: :lulz: What planet are you on?

Newsflash: Learn to walk on your hind legs. Bullshit tools are bullshit.

If the tools are bullshit they are bullshit and don't work.  If the tools are bullshit the tools are bullshit and they might work to get somebody laid but won't fix their problems with themselves or with women.  That doesn't mean that picking up women is a bad thing.  Doing it consistent with actual human principles is what matters.  If someone can become a better person doing this i'm all for it.

PUA techniques work on women who are borderline retarded

That is beyond unfair, Stella.  Just because a woman is broken and falls for it doesn't mean they're fucking stupid.

Point, Freeky.  :sad: I wasn't even thinking in those terms.
Even the ones who roll the gold chain guys aren't in that position by choice. I fucked up. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Freeky

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Re: i am your ENEMY
« Reply #69 on: July 26, 2012, 09:03:05 pm »
No problem.
If someone does the ďFine, youíre right, Iím clearly a terrible person, Iím Satan, Iím the worst person alive, I should just dieĒ thing in response to criticism of their harmful behavior, they are trying to manipulate people and flip the situation around so that they look like a victim.

As a neuroscientist I have to disagree with the perception that anyone is doing mathematical modeling of cognitive intelligence, yet; intelligence as an economist defines it, yes, but economists are worlds away from actual cognition.


Although it is outside the purview of this organization to offer personal advice, we can say -- without assuming any liability -- that previous experience indicates (and recent market studies corroborate) that given the present condition of the marketplace, continuing with your present course of action is likely to result in substantial in

Pope Lecherous

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Re: i am your ENEMY
« Reply #70 on: July 26, 2012, 09:05:33 pm »

If there is such a program that can help men find relationships and women with good character and doesn't employ the kind of techniques you mentioned previously i'm all for it.

But failing that, negging and borderline or actual sexual assault will have to do?

Why do you suggest that i support shit like that?  People can take whatever lessons they want from a program like that.  The guys with good hearts and no social ability, if they are indeed good people, can take lessons learned and apply what is morally right.  That's why I've already advocated other things besides a PUA course to help men become better people and become the kind of person who has high value, not because of how they present themselves or how slick they talk, but because they have a strength of character.  Men can learn to bring out their good natures around women and be attractive to them for the right reasons instead of never having a chance.  Because like you said, a woman decides fairly quickly whether she considers a person a worthy sexual partner.
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Re: i am your ENEMY
« Reply #71 on: July 26, 2012, 09:07:06 pm »
No problem.

Freeky rocks.  :)

I stand by what I said about PUA's and gold chain types, though. Assholes.
Fuck the bait and predatory shit.
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Pope Lecherous

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Re: i am your ENEMY
« Reply #72 on: July 26, 2012, 09:15:54 pm »
No problem.

Freeky rocks.  :)

I stand by what I said about PUA's and gold chain types, though. Assholes.
Fuck the bait and predatory shit.

Who do you think disagrees with that statement? Me? It would be unfair to generalize people who are good with women as devious people who use tricks to get laid.  It's also unfair to me to say that i condone that type of behavior without at least finding out what i believe and calling me hopeless without understanding beyond the surface.
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Re: i am your ENEMY
« Reply #73 on: July 26, 2012, 09:16:43 pm »

If there is such a program that can help men find relationships and women with good character and doesn't employ the kind of techniques you mentioned previously i'm all for it.

But failing that, negging and borderline or actual sexual assault will have to do?

Why do you suggest that i support shit like that? 

Pretty much throughout this entire thread, since you say PUA shit is a tool that can be used to positive ends, and therefore valid.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: i am your ENEMY
« Reply #74 on: July 26, 2012, 09:18:35 pm »

If there is such a program that can help men find relationships and women with good character and doesn't employ the kind of techniques you mentioned previously i'm all for it.

But failing that, negging and borderline or actual sexual assault will have to do?

Why do you suggest that i support shit like that? 

Because you are defending it, and because that is what "Mystery" teaches.  We had some fun on his website, not too long ago, and there were two things that were worth mentioning:

1.  That's PRECISELY what he teaches, and all other well-known PUA gurus model themselves on him.  And he's the one you mentioned.

2.  The forum was full of fucking losers lining up to pay $3000-$5000 for "boot camp", in which they would be trained to be proper sociopaths.  Fun fact:  Mystery "stages" women for the rubes to "succeed with".  Hell, it probably only costs him ~ 10% of his take, so he's still making mad bank on these pathetic morons.  I would tell them FOR FREE that the best way to meet women is just to meet women, and keep meeting women until you find one that is both attractive to you and attracted to you.  But they wouldn't listen, because they are in fact life's losers, who can only deal with women if they dehumanize them first.  They're even more pathetic than strip club addicts or johns.


People can take whatever lessons they want from a program like that.  The guys with good hearts and no social ability, if they are indeed good people, can take lessons learned and apply what is morally right. 

Again, I've seen the man's technique.  It is a moral vacuum.


Because like you said, a woman decides fairly quickly whether she considers a person a worthy sexual partner.

That is never, incidentally, based on your "act".  It's based on YOU.

Thing is, I define people as persons who can view other people as people.  It's sort of circular, like Mach's Principle, but like Mach's Principle, it works.

Example:  My dog.  My dog is not a people because she views my wife as GOD, LORD OF ALL CREATION (not a person), and everyone else as obstacles at best (again, not a person).

Example 2:  A PUA.  A PUA views women as conquests (not a person), and men as competition (not a person). 

Neither my dog nor PUAs are people.  They are basically animals.  Some of them can be quite friendly or even charming, but they are still animals, because they aren't people.

Example of a people:  Freeky.  Freeky honestly gives a shit about the thoughts and fates of those around her.  She views those around her as people.  She is a people.

Example 2:  Alty.  Alty is QUICK to come on to another person, but at no point (in my experience) does he dehumanize them, even the ones that worked out badly (his ex-wife).  To him, it appears that a lot of sex is just good clean fun, but he doesn't view his partner as a toy, but a people with which he is having a good time.  And he didn't even have to put them down or assault them to do it.  Alty is a people.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.