i am your ENEMY

[Freeky Queen of DERP]

No problem.

Freeky rocks. 

I stand by what I said about PUA's and gold chain types, though. Assholes.
Fuck the bait and predatory shit.

Who do you think disagrees with that statement? Me? It would be unfair to generalize people who are good with women as devious people who use tricks to get laid.  It's also unfair to me to say that i condone that type of behavior without at least finding out what i believe and calling me hopeless without understanding beyond the surface.

Are you differentiating between men who can pick up women strictly through charm and personality and character which are not false acts or calculated for best effect and the basic tenets of which Pick Up Artistry is made of?

[stelz]

No problem.

Freeky rocks. 

I stand by what I said about PUA's and gold chain types, though. Assholes.
Fuck the bait and predatory shit.

Who do you think disagrees with that statement? Me? It would be unfair to generalize people who are good with women as devious people who use tricks to get laid.  It's also unfair to me to say that i condone that type of behavior without at least finding out what i believe and calling me hopeless without understanding beyond the surface.

"Being good with women" has NOTHING to do with PUA shit. People who are SHITTY with women resort to PUA.

And you've condoned PUA all through this thread.

[Pope Lecherous]

Because you are defending it, and because that is what "Mystery" teaches.  We had some fun on his website, not too long ago, and there were two things that were worth mentioning:

1.  That's PRECISELY what he teaches, and all other well-known PUA gurus model themselves on him.  And he's the one you mentioned.

2.  The forum was full of fucking losers lining up to pay $3000-$5000 for "boot camp", in which they would be trained to be proper sociopaths.  Fun fact:  Mystery "stages" women for the rubes to "succeed with".  Hell, it probably only costs him ~ 10% of his take, so he's still making mad bank on these pathetic morons.  I would tell them FOR FREE that the best way to meet women is just to meet women, and keep meeting women until you find one that is both attractive to you and attracted to you.  But they wouldn't listen, because they are in fact life's losers, who can only deal with women if they dehumanize them first.  They're even more pathetic than strip club addicts or johns.

If this is typical of these programs then that's something I can't behind.

That is never, incidentally, based on your "act".  It's based on YOU.

Thing is, I define people as persons who can view other people as people.  It's sort of circular, like Mach's Principle, but like Mach's Principle, it works.

Example:  My dog.  My dog is not a people because she views my wife as GOD, LORD OF ALL CREATION (not a person), and everyone else as obstacles at best (again, not a person).

Example 2:  A PUA.  A PUA views women as conquests (not a person), and men as competition (not a person). 

Neither my dog nor PUAs are people.  They are basically animals.  Some of them can be quite friendly or even charming, but they are still animals, because they aren't people.

Example of a people:  Freeky.  Freeky honestly gives a shit about the thoughts and fates of those around her.  She views those around her as people.  She is a people.

Example 2:  Alty.  Alty is QUICK to come on to another person, but at no point (in my experience) does he dehumanize them, even the ones that worked out badly (his ex-wife).  To him, it appears that a lot of sex is just good clean fun, but he doesn't view his partner as a toy, but a people with which he is having a good time.  And he didn't even have to put them down or assault them to do it.  Alty is a people.

I'm not going to nit pick your examples because i get the point.  Do you think that if men who wanted to be more successful with women (for the right reasons) can learn lessons from Alty? If Alty decided to help out a socially inept buddy learn how to pick up women do you think that his lessons would simply consist of tips and tricks?  If you regard him as highly as you seem to then the answer to that last question would be no.  This is the kind of instruction certain men really need and can do wonders with.  Afterwards, if this hypothetical person dubs himself a pick up artist or not seems to be a big point of contention for you.  That's all i'm saying. A PUA doesn't have to do all those fucked up things. A PUA doesn't have to be a fucked up person.  Those just seem to be the type of losers you associate with the term.

[Pope Lecherous]

No problem.

Freeky rocks. 

I stand by what I said about PUA's and gold chain types, though. Assholes.
Fuck the bait and predatory shit.

Who do you think disagrees with that statement? Me? It would be unfair to generalize people who are good with women as devious people who use tricks to get laid.  It's also unfair to me to say that i condone that type of behavior without at least finding out what i believe and calling me hopeless without understanding beyond the surface.

Are you differentiating between men who can pick up women strictly through charm and personality and character which are not false acts or calculated for best effect and the basic tenets of which Pick Up Artistry is made of?

I'm really trying to.  It just feels like people are wrapped up with that term and the typical douche who assumes the mantle or aspires to it.  Men who fall into the former category you mentioned can hardly call themselves PUA or discuss pickup without a reaction like this.

[Alty]

Example 2:  Alty.  Alty is QUICK to come on to another person, but at no point (in my experience) does he dehumanize them, even the ones that worked out badly (his ex-wife).  To him, it appears that a lot of sex is just good clean fun, but he doesn't view his partner as a toy, but a people with which he is having a good time.  And he didn't even have to put them down or assault them to do it.  Alty is a people.

I have only one "technique" and that's: never try anything. People know if you're trying. Always.

So much of this stuff is chemistry.

I don't even notice how much I flirt.  I am told this by other people. I just act how I feel like acting while giving people a considerable amount of respect unless they've let me know they're not worth it. In which case I can be kind of a dick.

I sort of agree that PUA stuff is like martial arts. In that, when you get right down to it, and you've got some 300lb gorilla about to tear your legs off because you spilled your drink on his lady, martial arts are going to do FUCK ALL to prevent that from happening, by and large.

[Pope Lecherous]

"Being good with women" has NOTHING to do with PUA shit. People who are SHITTY with women resort to PUA.

And you've condoned PUA all through this thread.

The only thing i have condoned is picking up women.  You seem to think that pickup is all about these tricks and for some people it is, but that's not what i've been talking about.

[Pope Lecherous]

I have only one "technique" and that's: never try anything. People know if you're trying. Always.

So much of this stuff is chemistry.

I don't even notice how much I flirt.  I am told this by other people. I just act how I feel like acting while giving people a considerable amount of respect unless they've let me know they're not worth it. In which case I can be kind of a dick.

I sort of agree that PUA stuff is like martial arts. In that, when you get right down to it, and you've got some 300lb gorilla about to tear your legs off because you spilled your drink on his lady, martial arts are going to do FUCK ALL to prevent that from happening, by and large.

Have you ever been described as a natural? That kind of response indicates that you have game whether you mean to have it or not    Please don't get caught up in the negative connotations of the word game, i don't doubt you.

I'm sure you've met people that are not the best with women.  (And i'm imagining this is something that has already happened btw) But when you went to help them you didn't teach them PUA tricks/techniques per se, you inspired confidence and promoted positive shit.  Is that far off the mark?

[Freeky Queen of DERP]

No problem.

Freeky rocks. 

I stand by what I said about PUA's and gold chain types, though. Assholes.
Fuck the bait and predatory shit.

Who do you think disagrees with that statement? Me? It would be unfair to generalize people who are good with women as devious people who use tricks to get laid.  It's also unfair to me to say that i condone that type of behavior without at least finding out what i believe and calling me hopeless without understanding beyond the surface.

Are you differentiating between men who can pick up women strictly through charm and personality and character which are not false acts or calculated for best effect and the basic tenets of which Pick Up Artistry is made of?

I'm really trying to.  It just feels like people are wrapped up with that term and the typical douche who assumes the mantle or aspires to it.  Men who fall into the former category you mentioned can hardly call themselves PUA or discuss pickup without a reaction like this.

Okay.

PUA, or pick up artist, is specifically in reference to the people who do the horrible manipulation things.  It isn't even a title bestowed upon them, like Teabaggers for tea partiers.  That's what they call themselves.

If you can convince the other people in the thread that you didn't mean them, you meant guys who are good with women, then I think you will have less problems.  But if you are having trouble understanding why people are getting wrapped around the axle over your usage, that's why.

[Pope Lecherous]

Okay.

PUA, or pick up artist, is specifically in reference to the people who do the horrible manipulation things.  It isn't even a title bestowed upon them, like Teabaggers for tea partiers.  That's what they call themselves.

If you can convince the other people in the thread that you didn't mean them, you meant guys who are good with women, then I think you will have less problems.  But if you are having trouble understanding why people are getting wrapped around the axle over your usage, that's why.

This all started because on page 3 someone assumed PUA techniques were being employed and instead of immediately denying that I suggested that if someone can get something out of that kind of program they should.  I do think that there are places for pickup that are like the evil dojo from the Karate kid.  If an instructor like Miyagi can be found is something one can hope for, where guys can become better people and be more attractive for that reason.

[Freeky Queen of DERP]

And what you seem to not be taking away from this is that a successful pick up artist is not a good person simply because of the nature of the PUA beast.

So you can either say "Okay, well I didn't mean that," or you can continue doing what you're doing and the thing you want to discuss will be left behind in favor of people attacking you for defending an inherently dehumanizing system of manipulation.

[Luna]

Okay.

PUA, or pick up artist, is specifically in reference to the people who do the horrible manipulation things.  It isn't even a title bestowed upon them, like Teabaggers for tea partiers.  That's what they call themselves.

If you can convince the other people in the thread that you didn't mean them, you meant guys who are good with women, then I think you will have less problems.  But if you are having trouble understanding why people are getting wrapped around the axle over your usage, that's why.

This all started because on page 3 someone assumed PUA techniques were being employed and instead of immediately denying that I suggested that if someone can get something out of that kind of program they should.  I do think that there are places for pickup that are like the evil dojo from the Karate kid.  If an instructor like Miyagi can be found is something one can hope for, where guys can become better people and be more attractive for that reason.

You really don't get it.  At all.

There IS no Miyagi of PUA.  It isn't a martial art.  PUA is all about manipulation, degredation, and lying, both to women and to yourself.  There is no "GOOD" way to do it.

If your goal is to "pick up a woman," you have already failed, miserably.

If your goal is to find a compatable partner, there ARE no tricks.  Meet her, be yourself.  If all the women you try to meet are rejecting you, look at YOURSELF to figure out why, not for ways to manipulate them into wanting you.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Do you think that if men who wanted to be more successful with women (for the right reasons) can learn lessons from Alty?

No.  You're missing the point entirely.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Have you ever been described as a natural? That kind of response indicates that you have game whether you mean to have it or not    Please don't get caught up in the negative connotations of the word game, i don't doubt you.

I'm sure you've met people that are not the best with women.  (And i'm imagining this is something that has already happened btw) But when you went to help them you didn't teach them PUA tricks/techniques per se, you inspired confidence and promoted positive shit.  Is that far off the mark?

STILL MISSING A VERY BASIC POINT.

[Freeky Queen of DERP]

The point being that good people can't successfully use pick up artist tricks?

[Freeky Queen of DERP]

Because I remember when we went to that Manhood101 site, right, and there might have been one guy who was decent (but a failure at PUA), but other than that they were all stone fuckheads.