i am your ENEMY

[Alty]

I have only one "technique" and that's: never try anything. People know if you're trying. Always.

So much of this stuff is chemistry.

I don't even notice how much I flirt.  I am told this by other people. I just act how I feel like acting while giving people a considerable amount of respect unless they've let me know they're not worth it. In which case I can be kind of a dick.

I sort of agree that PUA stuff is like martial arts. In that, when you get right down to it, and you've got some 300lb gorilla about to tear your legs off because you spilled your drink on his lady, martial arts are going to do FUCK ALL to prevent that from happening, by and large.

Have you ever been described as a natural? That kind of response indicates that you have game whether you mean to have it or not    Please don't get caught up in the negative connotations of the word game, i don't doubt you.

I'm sure you've met people that are not the best with women.  (And i'm imagining this is something that has already happened btw) But when you went to help them you didn't teach them PUA tricks/techniques per se, you inspired confidence and promoted positive shit.  Is that far off the mark?

I used to be terrible with MOST social situation, but most especially those with people I wanted to bang. There's some thing in life that a system can't teach. Like writing a novel, for example. You just have to do it, over and over, until you re-wire yourself.

Your brain wants nothing more than to get with at least one other. Whenever I encounter people who are not good with people in that way I say NOTHING. Because nothing will help. You can tell someone how to paint, which strokes to make, but that doesn't mean you can actually paint.

I can sort of see what you're trying to say. But the problem is you're over-thinking it. You don't need a system to do what your brain has spent billions of years doing. A system will just get in the way. You just have to put yourself in social situation with a smile on your face, and keep doing it until you stop thinking about these things with your fancy frontal lobes.

[Pope Lecherous]

So you can either say "Okay, well I didn't mean that," or you can continue doing what you're doing and the thing you want to discuss will be left behind in favor of people attacking you for defending an inherently dehumanizing system of manipulation.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that no, that's not what i meant.

You really don't get it.  At all.

There IS no Miyagi of PUA.  It isn't a martial art.  PUA is all about manipulation, degredation, and lying, both to women and to yourself.  There is no "GOOD" way to do it.

If your goal is to "pick up a woman," you have already failed, miserably.

If your goal is to find a compatable partner, there ARE no tricks.  Meet her, be yourself.  If all the women you try to meet are rejecting you, look at YOURSELF to figure out why, not for ways to manipulate them into wanting you.

Keeping in mind the above, the goal IS to find a compatible partner.  I'm saying it doesn't need to be limited to a long term relationship and that's okay. Manipulating women into liking you isn't the mechanism. I know this and i can't tell if you keep using "you" because you mean me, but i'm not a pickup artist.

Like freeky pointed out, these are things are a part of the beast that is pickup.  I'm talking about growing mentally and morally into the kind of person that is attractive to women. So using the kind of techniques employed by the typical pickup artist isn't what i'm talking about and it is only counter productive.  No one disagrees.

As far as there being no Miyagi of the PUA community, that's fine because they are a community of evil doers.  I'm referring to someone who can facilitate the growth of a person into someone that is attractive to women.  He doesn't have to be considered a pickup artist or call himself that.  Going out with the goal of meeting someone great isn't wrong. I call that going out to pickup a woman.  If i should instead call it "going out to meet someone great for the night or for life" let me know.

[Alty]

I'm talking about growing mentally and morally into the kind of person that is attractive to women.

You do this by being a better person than you were the day before, in every way you can think of.
You do this by going out and challenging yourself to do things you think you can't do.
You do this by being yourself as HARD as you possible can, while doing the above, and trying not to fuck people over.

[Pope Lecherous]

I'm talking about growing mentally and morally into the kind of person that is attractive to women.

You do this by being a better person than you were the day before, in every way you can think of.
You do this by going out and challenging yourself to do things you think you can't do.
You do this by being yourself as HARD as you possible can, while doing the above, and trying not to fuck people over.

What you quoted wasn't a question. As for what you said, you can tell these things to someone who fails with women and hope they take your words to heart and consider them and grow. Or like you suggested earlier, learn by trying and failing trying and failing.  Learning with guidance from a good person who is good at it is not wrong.  I'm not talking about learning from an evil PUA who has no value for women.

ETA:  Keep in mind that during the trial and error process, things are learned.  There is nothing inherently bad about this knowledge.  There is nothing wrong with passing this knowledge to others.  I do think that this knowledge should be passed in the form of a lesson someone can grow from and not in the form of a trick.

[Alty]

Ah, then I've lost track of what's happening ITT. 

[Pope Lecherous]

Ah, then I've lost track of what's happening ITT. 

The only thing that has happened is that i've had to repeatedly emphasize that manipulation of women is not something i agree with and that there's nothing wrong with trying to get with a woman just dont be a devious prick about it.

[Placid Dingo]

I think Blackfoots alright.

Look, I got into PUA because it was the first thing I had ever seen that actually broke it down and said 'this is how you approach a woman'. Stellas right when se says men who are good with women don't need it, but it's not a crime to be bad with women.

Now everyone is also right when they say PUA is feral bad shit. But the only other place, honestly, that I've seen that gives genuinely good relationship-how to meet people socially kind of advice is here. So I can appreciate the reason people lean towards PUA. I actually wander into the mystery forum periodically to insult people or offer non-slimy advice to guys who are actually nice guys who just don't understand how to talk to women, and sometimes I actually come across genuinely good advice.

Luna, its easy to say 'be yourself' but for a lot of guys being their natural selves is kind of mumbling and avoiding eye contact while feeling inadequate and feeling ready to be brushed of as soon as some 'jerk' comes by. So things like making eye contact, projecting confidence, looking sharp etc... A lot of guys just don't know how to do this. I'm pretty social and I still barely cope with five minutes of slow talk

I'm not trying to dedend PUA. Everyone here is correct when they characterise it as slimy manipulative sludge water. But I think in this regard Blackfoot is just me a few years back, not really knowing how to deal with a social or romantic situation intuitively, not having anyone else who actually breaks down the process into comprehendible detail. I definately don't mean to their off at you Luna because Be Yourself IS good advice, but to someone who doesn't understand themself or the social process, it's not useful.

Best advice I ever got;
-girls aren't being approached every minute of every day. The only time you will get shot the godawful fuck down for just making conversation is when you're one of many dumb drink guys.
-make eye contact and smile
-project confidence.

That's it. And I'm aware I'm going to sound stupid but it took me YEARS.

Anyway, point is, I don't think Blackfoots a sleazy wannabe pickup artist, I just think that he's still working his stuff out. And actually this forum in particular is full of people who give great advice so it's not a bad place to start.

[Alty]

Ah, then I've lost track of what's happening ITT. 

The only thing that has happened is that i've had to repeatedly emphasize that manipulation of women is not something i agree with and that there's nothing wrong with trying to get with a woman just dont be a devious prick about it.

Well, then...OK!
 

[Freeky Queen of DERP]

I'm not talking about learning from an evil PUA who has no value for women.

All PUAs are evil.

[Sir Bearington]

Aaaah so this thread is about your trouble with the ladies eh?

Companionship isn't a necessity, i myself have made a educated decision to hold out and wait for a bit until i find the best candidate and feel more comfortable. The most which i will give you advicewise is not to be a asshole, it may seem that "good guys end up last" but quite often asshole's relationships don't hold out as long as nicer guys or have as much genuine meaning.

[Pope Lecherous]

I think Blackfoots alright.

Look, I got into PUA because it was the first thing I had ever seen that actually broke it down and said 'this is how you approach a woman'. Stellas right when se says men who are good with women don't need it, but it's not a crime to be bad with women.

Now everyone is also right when they say PUA is feral bad shit. But the only other place, honestly, that I've seen that gives genuinely good relationship-how to meet people socially kind of advice is here. So I can appreciate the reason people lean towards PUA. I actually wander into the mystery forum periodically to insult people or offer non-slimy advice to guys who are actually nice guys who just don't understand how to talk to women, and sometimes I actually come across genuinely good advice.

Luna, its easy to say 'be yourself' but for a lot of guys being their natural selves is kind of mumbling and avoiding eye contact while feeling inadequate and feeling ready to be brushed of as soon as some 'jerk' comes by. So things like making eye contact, projecting confidence, looking sharp etc... A lot of guys just don't know how to do this. I'm pretty social and I still barely cope with five minutes of slow talk

I'm not trying to dedend PUA. Everyone here is correct when they characterise it as slimy manipulative sludge water. But I think in this regard Blackfoot is just me a few years back, not really knowing how to deal with a social or romantic situation intuitively, not having anyone else who actually breaks down the process into comprehendible detail. I definately don't mean to their off at you Luna because Be Yourself IS good advice, but to someone who doesn't understand themself or the social process, it's not useful.

Best advice I ever got;
-girls aren't being approached every minute of every day. The only time you will get shot the godawful fuck down for just making conversation is when you're one of many dumb drink guys.
-make eye contact and smile
-project confidence.

That's it. And I'm aware I'm going to sound stupid but it took me YEARS.

Anyway, point is, I don't think Blackfoots a sleazy wannabe pickup artist, I just think that he's still working his stuff out. And actually this forum in particular is full of people who give great advice so it's not a bad place to start.

I'm not working anything out  !  I was just trying to speak on behalf of the men we've both been referring to.  Their desire to become successful with women may be misguided, but not inherently wrong.  It's everything; the motive, the execution, and the fallout.

[Pope Lecherous]

Aaaah so this thread is about your trouble with the ladies eh?

Companionship isn't a necessity, i myself have made a educated decision to hold out and wait for a bit until i find the best candidate and feel more comfortable. The most which i will give you advicewise is not to be a asshole, it may seem that "good guys end up last" but quite often asshole's relationships don't hold out as long as nicer guys or have as much genuine meaning.

 

stop it. I'm laughing hysterically.  If you are trolling me i applaud you.

[Sir Bearington]

One other thing, don't pass up opportunities.

Ive passed up opportunities i would kill most men to have happen again as it only comes back to haunt you and kick you in the balls.

[Pope Lecherous]

 

[Freeky Queen of DERP]

I'm not talking about learning from an evil PUA who has no value for women.

All PUAs are evil.

Yes, but I wouldn't use those words exactly.  Moral vacuum, monstrous, pathetic, and sociopathic maybe.


Ah, the lolz of sharing computers.