Death of Saad Al-Hilli

[Placid Dingo]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9536990/France-shooting-hiker-describes-horror-of-murder-scene.html

Story of British family murderered in France.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9534285/France-shooting-Murdered-Briton-was-acting-strangely-before-family-were-killed.html

Another story, makes it look stranger. Describes killing as professional assassination. Strange behaviour by family before murder.


Sorry about only having Telegraph links; allegations death may have related to defence work.

Mr Al-Hilli worked for Surrey Satellites Technology Limited (SSTL) near Guildford, and detectives are expected to ask colleagues about whether his work may have made him a target for assassination.

Mr Al-Hilli was part of a team involved in an undisclosed project linked to European Aeronautic Defence and Space. The company designs and launches satellites for clients who want an "eye in the sky" for commercial, civil or security purposes.

However, friends and colleagues said his work was routine and not secret.

[Cain]

It's an odd one, that's for sure.

All four were killed by the same gun, it was close range and very quick.  The weapon has not been found, which should rule out suicide or a family feud.

Some have speculated that since Al-Hilli was a Shia Muslim, it may have been feared he was going on the Pilgrimage to Qoms and that this was an Israeli inspired hit.  Possible, I'll concede, but usually the Israelis have slightly better intelligence than this, and should know he had no special knowledge of nuclear or defence secrets.

Even more interestingly, the "passing cyclist", Sylvain Mollier, was a nuclear metallurgist for Cezus, a subsidiary of Areva.  They do nuclear-linked metal work, but also do work for missiles and satellites.

It is entirely possible that not one, but two nuclear-industry/defence linked scientists were assassinated on the same day.

Given the Al-Hilli's had holidayed at the camp before, and Mollier was local to the area, it could be that some suspected, rightly or wrongly, that some kind of illicit transaction was going on between the two.

Or perhaps something else entirely was going on.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I'd been wondering about the cyclist myself. Especially when RAF dude was on a cycle, reporting a landy and a bike leaving the scene, whilst the hiker swears blind there was no traffic.

Perhaps there was a connection between Al-Hilli and Mollier but perhaps Mollier was the target and the Al-Hilli family happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and not vice versa as has been speculated.

What's your take on the murder weapon, Cain? "7.65 calibre pistol" I know fuck all about guns but I'm wondering if this points to pistol-x the weapon of choice for any specific organisation?

[Cain]

It's a pretty widely used calibre in Europe, a lot of old French handguns, like the Modele 1935, or the MAS-38 use that calibre.

As do some more modern weapons, such as the Browning .32, which can be popular with European militaries, police and civilians.

It's a decent choice for someone who doesn't want to get caught or leave any distinguishing features.

[Placid Dingo]

Thanks Cain. Didn't pick up on the cyclist.

[Cain]

He was misreported as working for a steel company.  It's technically true, of course...just not very descriptive or useful.

The presence of an ex-RAF cyclist, the one who reported the shooting, could just be coincidence...but it has to be said, that's an awful lot of military links to a murder.  Ex-military are frequently used in intelligence, if we're taking the assassination angle on this, could he have been shadowing one of the two murdered parties?  Something to consider, especially if we consider the "meetup" hypothesis above.

I know the French think there might be some inconsistencies in his story, they want him to redo his bike journey.

However, if this was an assassination...well, lone assassins are either criminals or lunatics.  You use teams to carry out assassinations, everyone with the manpower to do so knows that.  But French ballistics say all the shots came from one gun. 

Some are suggesting that Haydar Thaher, son of one of the victims, might be responsible.  He has mental health problems, has made violent threats against his family before, and has been missing for a month.  His mental illness seems to be schizophrenia...but I don't know.  The scene was described as a massacre but this looks like the kind of killing done by someone who has done it before.  I considered a serial killer when I first heard the news, but it's very hard to leap to this kind of cold-blooded killing without previous experience...and from the sound of it, the local area tends to be very quiet, peaceful and has little in the way of violent crime.  Of course, I'm not privy to all the criminal reports in the region, and the possibility of someone coming into the region from somewhere else cannot be ruled out, but at the same time, I would hope for more indicators than "mental illness, reports of violence" for such a ruthless killing.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Would a team necessarily require more than one shooter? Given that the targets are civillian and unlikely to put up much of a fight.

There's also the little girl getting beaten up and shot in the shoulder. My experience of professional hitmen is strictly limited to hollywood blockbusters but the "I don't do children" trope doesn't seem completely unrealistic to me. Does this eldest daughters treatment sway probability in favour of a lone nutjob or is it totally in keeping with professional assassins?

[Cain]

Having more than one shooter allows for the job to be completed more quickly and thorougly.  You can cover angles of escape and hit the targets from two or three directions (remember, friendly fire isn't) and usually the superior amount of firepower means less chance of someone surviving - like they did in this tragedy.

As for hired killers, well, they're hired killers.  You do the job and you kill everyone at the scene - all potential witnesses must be eliminated, no matter how young, unthreatening or cute they may be.  Failure to do so may mean it's your arse in jail for the next thirty plus years - assuming your own former employers let you live long enough to make it into police custody.  Assassins with a conscience are like hookers with a heart of gold - a great fictional trope, but sadly lacking in reality.

[The Wizard Joseph]

The story definitely seems to me to be more of a criminal or crazy type of thing. Dressing conspicuously in black and scouring a campsite in a hurry makes it seem a little desperate and sloppy for some kind of intelligence hit. The actions of the man and his frequent departures point to a lot more going on than meets the eye. Going to a campsite at all seems like he was trying to obscure himself instead of increasing his public profile. Whatever he was running from I doubt he considered them worried about keeping his death out of the public eye.
Still weirded out by the biker just happening to be there to catch a bullet, and the metallurgy connection.

[Cain]

The ex-RAF man has come forward and identified himself.

Meanwhile, French prosecutor is stating the motive for the crime "has its origin in the UK".

[Placid Dingo]

New report from BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19831615#TWEET251097

Mentions that a French cyclist was shot too; I missed that.

Linknig whole thing possibly to Iraq where he was born.

Lots of weird.

[P3nT4gR4m]

New report from BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19831615#TWEET251097

Mentions that a French cyclist was shot too; I missed that.

Linknig whole thing possibly to Iraq where he was born.

Lots of weird.

Then you're going to love reply #1 ^^

[Placid Dingo]

New report from BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19831615#TWEET251097

Mentions that a French cyclist was shot too; I missed that.

Linknig whole thing possibly to Iraq where he was born.

Lots of weird.

Then you're going to love reply #1 ^^

Misinterpreted that cyclist as being a witness. As in a living one.

[V3X]

I think everyone's going in the wrong direction here. I think the cyclist was the actual target -- the perpetrator was probably a jealous ex-boyfriend or something. He just also killed Saad Al-Hilli to make the murder look like a political assassination with innocent bystanders.

[P3nT4gR4m]

And he'd have gotten away with it too if it hadn't been for those pesky internets