Author Topic: Autonomous drones  (Read 854 times)

Cain

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Autonomous drones
« on: October 03, 2012, 06:17:35 pm »
I don't see this ever going wrong:

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/10/01/professor-drones-will-soon-be-able-to-kill-during-war-without-human-assistance/

Quote
Drones could soon operate without the help of humans.

Agence France-Presse is reporting that the Pentagon wants its drones to be more autonomous, so that they can run with little to no assistance from people.

“Before they were blind, deaf and dumb,” Mark Maybury, chief scientist for the U.S. Air Force, told AFP. “Now we’re beginning to make them to see, hear and sense.”

Ronald Arkin, a professor at the Georgia Institute of Technology, believes that drones will soon be able to kill enemies on their own independently.

“It is not my belief that an unmanned system will be able to be perfectly ethical in the battlefield, but I am convinced that they can perform more ethically than human soldiers are capable of,” Arkin told AFP.

Arkin added that robotic weapons should be designed as “ethical” warriors and that these type of robots could wage war in a more “humane” way.

Now, why does this sound like the plot of a techno-thriller?

Oh yeah, because it is:

http://thedaemon.com/killdecisionsynopsis.html

Quote
It’s no secret that America relies on remotely piloted drones to target adversaries overseas. But fifty other nations are developing drones of their own, and the next generation will be much scarier: autonomous machines that acquire and destroy targets without direct human intervention.

Lets just hope that, unlike in the book, no-one gets the smart idea of using behavioural patterns of Weaver ants to program the drones with.
"The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before? Only the Logos allows one to mitigate that slavery. Only knowing the sources of thought and action allows us to own our thoughts and our actions, to throw off the yoke of circumstance."
- R. Scott Bakker, The Darkness That Comes Before

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Re: Autonomous drones
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2012, 06:21:39 pm »
Oh, hey.  Check it out.  We just programmed our extinction.
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Re: Autonomous drones
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2012, 07:52:21 pm »
I can't believe none of them have ever seen Terminator so I can only conclude that they are dumb as fuck. Is there a 13 year old child on the planet who doesn't know how this one goes down?
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Re: Autonomous drones
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2012, 07:56:17 pm »
I don't see what all the fuss is about. Robots deciding whether I live or die is better than humans doing it. At least a robot will shoot to kill. Humans make you deal with workplace politics for 50 years first, and then let you die slowly, one Medicaid denial letter at a time.
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Re: Autonomous drones
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2012, 08:13:54 pm »
I can foresee a secret override systems button. A little something for when you need the "ethical" part of the program to fail.

"Huh! Well I'll be... looks like the incendiary, anti-personnel self destruct system went a little haywire right here. Good thing this shit's classified or we might have a real lawsuit on our hands!"

I am also really OK with the idea of Ethical Warriors, but this is nearly impossible for a human I imagine, much less a robot. What machine's wires can consider when and how a bullet should be fired? They do what they're told.

As for a more "humane" warfare?
It seems to me that the bad old days when people used to hack each other open until done are a bit more humane than prettymuch everything since WWI. I mean what's stopping such a system from accidentally all over the place with teargas or the much worse options eh?
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Re: Autonomous drones
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2012, 08:18:08 pm »
I don't see this ever going wrong:

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/10/01/professor-drones-will-soon-be-able-to-kill-during-war-without-human-assistance/

Quote
Drones could soon operate without the help of humans.

Agence France-Presse is reporting that the Pentagon wants its drones to be more autonomous, so that they can run with little to no assistance from people.

“Before they were blind, deaf and dumb,” Mark Maybury, chief scientist for the U.S. Air Force, told AFP. “Now we’re beginning to make them to see, hear and sense.”

Ronald Arkin, a professor at the Georgia Institute of Technology, believes that drones will soon be able to kill enemies on their own independently.

“It is not my belief that an unmanned system will be able to be perfectly ethical in the battlefield, but I am convinced that they can perform more ethically than human soldiers are capable of,” Arkin told AFP.

Arkin added that robotic weapons should be designed as “ethical” warriors and that these type of robots could wage war in a more “humane” way.

Now, why does this sound like the plot of a techno-thriller?

Oh yeah, because it is:

http://thedaemon.com/killdecisionsynopsis.html

Quote
It’s no secret that America relies on remotely piloted drones to target adversaries overseas. But fifty other nations are developing drones of their own, and the next generation will be much scarier: autonomous machines that acquire and destroy targets without direct human intervention.

Lets just hope that, unlike in the book, no-one gets the smart idea of using behavioural patterns of Weaver ants to program the drones with.

Here we go!  :horrormirth:
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”

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Re: Autonomous drones
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2012, 08:19:07 pm »


As for a more "humane" warfare?

Code for "less raping".
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”

“People get used to anything. The less you think about your oppression, the more your tolerance for it grows. After a while, people just think oppression is the normal state of things. But to become free, you have to be acutely aware of being a slave.”
― Assata Shaku

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Re: Autonomous drones
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2012, 08:27:21 pm »
THIS IS THE HAPPIEST DAY OF MY LIFE.
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Re: Autonomous drones
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2012, 08:29:06 pm »
Why do I get the feeling I should have reclassed to a drone operator now?
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Cain

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Re: Autonomous drones
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2012, 09:30:40 pm »
In Soviet USA, drone operates you.

It'll make you as ethical as shit.
"The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before? Only the Logos allows one to mitigate that slavery. Only knowing the sources of thought and action allows us to own our thoughts and our actions, to throw off the yoke of circumstance."
- R. Scott Bakker, The Darkness That Comes Before

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Re: Autonomous drones
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2012, 10:46:46 pm »
Didn't we (by which I mean the United States, the Soviet Union, and anybody else who got nuclear capability during or immediately following World War Two) have fully autonomous (for some definition of fully autonomous -- I'm counting dead man's switches) targeting and launching capabilities for ICBMs with nukes on the tips? Drones are at least discriminating; they aren't feasible to use for totally extinguishing a continent, even with the current US military budget.

Autonomy is interesting in the context of asymmetric warfare. Autonomy would finally fundamentally distinguish drones from very expensive remote control airplanes (in other words, our new-and-exciting weapon of the week is no longer something that an upper-middle-class american hobbyist would be able to throw together a passable equivalent for out of his own pocket in a few weeks), but mechanisms for autonomous targeting and navigation are information (and information derivable by a sufficiently intelligent group of people from experimentation, as opposed to the kind of information you have to buy, steal, or leak), which means that once a handful of details are known, the remainder can be deduced with an investment of time (as opposed to equipment). Autonomous drones would initially cost more than remote drones because of the research costs, but reverse engineering is cheaper than forward engineering, and (given that most of the prior work on these topics, so far as I am aware, is in the public domain in the form of academic and hobbyist papers) the capabilities of first-generation autonomous drones can be cheaply replicated -- and groups with little money and few cannonfodder units have much more to gain by arming and making autonomous a fleet of $200 toy airplanes than does the US military.

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Re: Autonomous drones
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2012, 10:55:12 pm »
KILLING SOME HUMANS BUT NOT ALL HUMANS IS UNETHICAL; PROCEEDING TO KILL ALL HUMANS
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Re: Autonomous drones
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2012, 10:56:53 pm »
I can't wait to cheat the programming by raising an Al Qaeda flag over my asshole neighbor's house.
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Re: Autonomous drones
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2012, 11:06:03 pm »
Didn't we (by which I mean the United States, the Soviet Union, and anybody else who got nuclear capability during or immediately following World War Two) have fully autonomous (for some definition of fully autonomous -- I'm counting dead man's switches) targeting and launching capabilities for ICBMs with nukes on the tips?

No.
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Re: Autonomous drones
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2012, 08:07:54 am »
A bunch of drones got hacked, stolen and sold on recently. Bizarre behaviour could easily be mistaken for bugs in the autonomous mode when it could just as easily be someone exploiting it for murderous shits and giggles.
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