Separation of church and YOUR FACE

[LMNO, PhD (life continues)]

Nah, keep going.  It's interesting stuff.

[M. Nigel Salt]

In a matter of days, some 1,400 American pastors are planning to break the law.  And they’re likely to get away with it.

As part of “Pulpit Freedom Sunday,” on Oct. 7, religious leaders across the country will endorse political candidates — an act that flies in the face of Internal Revenue Service rules about what tax-exempt organizations, such as churches, can and cannot do.

Though the regulation has been in place since 1954, in 2009, the U.S. District Court of Minnesota ruled the IRS no longer had the appropriate staff to investigate places of worship after a reorganization changed who in the agency had the authority to launch investigations.

New procedures for conducting church audits have been pending since 2009, which has left the IRS virtually impotent in conducting any kind of new investigations.

Well, fuck -- if a church wants to endorse a political candidate, then they should fucking pay taxes.

I've noticed that the IRS doesn't really like it when people flout the rules.

I kind of love the IRS.  I have a feeling some shit's bout to go down.

[Mangrove]

Latest 'US religion in decline' poll.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-religion-survey-shows-dramatic-changes-over-just-two-decades-8203395.html

[Cain]

Jesus christ, yes. The Mormon church owns huge swaths of farmland. I've always thought they ought to be taxed on that, if nothing else.

Oh, its much worse than that.

The original libertarians and Birchers were heavily Mormon influenced.  The Mormon Church has a strict social and political agenda it is willing to spend millions on.  When the Mormons gave Romney senior marching orders on the ERA, he caved and did as he was told.  And now his son, a Mormon bishop who apparently idolises his father's political career is in the running for the Presidency.

And should he become President, many in the LDS will see this as a fulfillment of the White Horse Prophecy.  Which ultimately culminates in Mormon global rule and the return of Jesus, among other things.

[Juana Go?]

Oh yeah, they're willing to spend. OH HAI Mormon spending on Prop 8.


I recall you linking to the wiki article on the White Horse prophecy and suspecting that. I'm really glad they're such a small minority.

[BabylonHoruv]

Funny fact: that does not mean what everyone thinks it means. Jesus, in the full context of the time (an oppressed colonial backwater with an awful lot of frothing anti-Roman religious radicals in the countryside), meant that Caesar was owed nothing because he owned nothing that was in Palestine.

Sorry, but there's only one church that matters this election cycle, and it's located in Utah.

The funny thing is, American liberals don't want to talk about it, presumably out of fear of offending people with money.  And they don't come much richer than the Church of Latter Day Saints, it must be said.

Jesus christ, yes. The Mormon church owns huge swaths of farmland. I've always thought they ought to be taxed on that, if nothing else.

I'd disagree about Christ saying Caesar was owed nothing.  He specifically mentioned the face on the coinage, that face was Caesar's.  So Caesar was owed the coin, which had his face on it.

[Juana Go?]

Shut the fuck up. No one cares about your wretched, creepastic opinion.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Shut the fuck up. No one cares about your wretched, creepastic opinion.

I'm Man Yellow, and I agree with the above statement.

[Don Coyote]

Shut the fuck up. No one cares about your wretched, creepastic opinion.

I'm Man Yellow, and I agree with the above statement.

I am garbage eating urban predator and I approve this message.

[stelz]

Shut the fuck up. No one cares about your wretched, creepastic opinion.

I'm Man Yellow, and I agree with the above statement.

I am garbage eating urban predator and I approve this message.

I approve of garbage eating urban predator, Man Yellow and this message.

[Freeky Queen of DERP]

I agree with all that.  Plus another couple levels of meta.

[Verbal Mike]

Anyone care to sum up in a couple of sentences how BabHo earned this level of loathing?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Jesus was being asked about the temple tax. The temple tax was a tax each Jew had to pay when they came to the temple. All Jews were required to come to the temple multiple times each year... so this was a direct tax on their meeting God's Commandments. Among the Jews of the time, this was a very contentious subject.

The Jews expected the Messiah to come, throw off the yoke of the Romans and reestablish the throne as a descendant of David's line. Jesus, on the other hand came as a spiritual, not political savior. As he latere stated to Pilate "My Kingdom is no part of this world".

So the tax statement by Jesus was defining a separation between 'church' and 'state'. Specifically, that his salvation, his kingdom and his followers were not there to overthrow the Romans, or protest unfair taxes. They were there to do God's Work. Thus, if Ceaser wanted the tax, they should pay the tax, so that they could focus on the spiritual, rather then being bogged down in the political.

A strict interpretation of Jesus gospel can build a strong argument that Christians should be politically neutral, focused instead on their relationship with God and their salvation through God's Kingdom.

Of course, thats assuming that the poor guy actually lived and said/did the stuff written about him.

[Cain]

As I understand it, that was also the standard evangelical position prior to the 1970s.  Involvement in politics of any kind would distract from God's work, therefore the thing to do was to pay your taxes, do what was required insofar as it didn't violate Christian ethics (ie; the draft) and get on with the business of saving souls.  I think some preachers even compared voting to gambling...the logic was a bit convoluted, but the prohibition that engendered was pretty strong.

And since nowadays Christians seem to spend more time bashing gays and arguing for foreign wars than spreading the word of Jesus, I think the idea that getting involved in politics would distract from God's work to be a fairly valid point.

[Juana Go?]

Anyone care to sum up in a couple of sentences how BabHo earned this level of loathing?

He's into snuff porn.