Author Topic: So, we need a definition of beauty.  (Read 13102 times)

Internet Jesus

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Re: So, we need a definition of beauty.
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2012, 08:59:56 pm »
Why I bothered posting the OP is beyond me.  Slow learner, I guess.

Oh, I don't know, Texas Faeries made a good point a few posts back, before you and I turned this into the bitching about other people we know thread.  It can be rescued.
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Internet Jesus

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Re: So, we need a definition of beauty.
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2012, 09:01:11 pm »
Hrap? Someone at CG?

Yes.  Sorry to get so inside baseball here.

May as well use the thread for something.   :lulz:

It's not like Garbo was gonna comment on the OP.  I'm "part of the problem", you see.

Get down off your cross so we can use the wood for something useful, Roger.  Like making a Trojan bunny.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: So, we need a definition of beauty.
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2012, 09:01:43 pm »
Hrap? Someone at CG?

Yes.  Sorry to get so inside baseball here.

May as well use the thread for something.   :lulz:

It's not like Garbo was gonna comment on the OP.  I'm "part of the problem", you see.

Get down off your cross so we can use the wood for something useful, Roger.  Like making a Trojan bunny.

Fuck you.  Get your own tree.

TGRR,
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Juana Go?

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Re: So, we need a definition of beauty.
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2012, 09:04:19 pm »
Hrap? Someone at CG?

Yes.  Sorry to get so inside baseball here.

May as well use the thread for something.   :lulz:

It's not like Garbo was gonna comment on the OP.  I'm "part of the problem", you see.
I was, actually, in the process of commenting initially. And then I decided it would be better to sit on the idea for a little while because that's how I do sometimes.
But sure, that kind of comment really makes me want to post in serious reply.
“Call me sentimental, but there’s no-one in the world that I’d like to see get dysentery more than you.” — David Nicholls (One Day)

Epimetheus

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Re: So, we need a definition of beauty.
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2012, 09:06:15 pm »
Personally, I use the word beautiful to describe anything that incites joy and inspiration. Physical or non-physical. There are beautiful landscapes, experiences, people, concepts, poems, feelings, etc.
That was part of what made me stumble in the last thread - because calling a person beautiful who isn't physically attractive could still be valid to me.
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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: So, we need a definition of beauty.
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2012, 09:07:44 pm »
Hrap? Someone at CG?

Yes.  Sorry to get so inside baseball here.

May as well use the thread for something.   :lulz:

It's not like Garbo was gonna comment on the OP.  I'm "part of the problem", you see.
I was, actually, in the process of commenting initially. And then I decided it would be better to sit on the idea for a little while because that's how I do sometimes.
But sure, that kind of comment really makes me want to post in serious reply.

In a hundred years, people will still be discussing it.  No, really.  And I'm really fucking dumb and I have no idea when I'm being given the long look down the nose for the last three months or so. 

Now I just need someone to piss down my neck, so I can have them tell me it's raining.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: So, we need a definition of beauty.
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2012, 09:10:20 pm »
Personally, I use the word beautiful to describe anything that incites joy and inspiration. Physical or non-physical. There are beautiful landscapes, experiences, people, concepts, poems, feelings, etc.
That was part of what made me stumble in the last thread - because calling a person beautiful who isn't physically attractive could still be valid to me.

And there's the disconnect in the other thread.  There are two definitions of beauty, at least, and people keep talking about your definition, when the thread was about beauty/attractiveness rather than beauty/aesthetics. 

Hot person walks by:  Beautiful --->  subject of other thread.

Elegant mathematical proof:  Beautiful --->  not the subject of the other thread.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Juana Go?

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Re: So, we need a definition of beauty.
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2012, 09:16:09 pm »
This is one of those debates that I think is going to be an issue of informal/personal usage versus dictionary definitions. And I think Roger said what I would've on the subject.



Hrap? Someone at CG?

Yes.  Sorry to get so inside baseball here.

May as well use the thread for something.   :lulz:

It's not like Garbo was gonna comment on the OP.  I'm "part of the problem", you see.
I was, actually, in the process of commenting initially. And then I decided it would be better to sit on the idea for a little while because that's how I do sometimes.
But sure, that kind of comment really makes me want to post in serious reply.

In a hundred years, people will still be discussing it.  No, really.  And I'm really fucking dumb and I have no idea when I'm being given the long look down the nose for the last three months or so. 

Now I just need someone to piss down my neck, so I can have them tell me it's raining.
I know they will and I haven't been looking down my nose at you. You sometimes irritate me but I still like and respect you, so I'm sorry if I've been coming off that way.
“Call me sentimental, but there’s no-one in the world that I’d like to see get dysentery more than you.” — David Nicholls (One Day)

Juana Go?

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Re: So, we need a definition of beauty.
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2012, 09:18:58 pm »
This is one of those debates that I think is going to be an issue of informal/personal usage versus dictionary definitions. And I think Roger said what I would've on the subject.
Also, related to Rog's post in response to you, Epi, I think it might be good to separate your informal usage of "beautiful" from the more formal kind of "beautiful" Nigel used.
“Call me sentimental, but there’s no-one in the world that I’d like to see get dysentery more than you.” — David Nicholls (One Day)

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Re: So, we need a definition of beauty.
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2012, 09:20:37 pm »
This is one of those debates that I think is going to be an issue of informal/personal usage versus dictionary definitions. And I think Roger said what I would've on the subject.

It's also people arguing just to argue, because the original statement Nigel made was put in strong tones, and strong tones are taken as a challenge, especially when they come from women.


Hrap? Someone at CG?

Yes.  Sorry to get so inside baseball here.

May as well use the thread for something.   :lulz:

It's not like Garbo was gonna comment on the OP.  I'm "part of the problem", you see.
I was, actually, in the process of commenting initially. And then I decided it would be better to sit on the idea for a little while because that's how I do sometimes.
But sure, that kind of comment really makes me want to post in serious reply.

In a hundred years, people will still be discussing it.  No, really.  And I'm really fucking dumb and I have no idea when I'm being given the long look down the nose for the last three months or so. 

Now I just need someone to piss down my neck, so I can have them tell me it's raining.
I know they will and I haven't been looking down my nose at you. You sometimes irritate me but I still like and respect you, so I'm sorry if I've been coming off that way.

Okay, a mistaken impression then.  I apologize.

But I'm not sure how I could be considered "irritating".  I have the sunniest fucking disposition of anyone on this board, or any other.  I'm like Jesus.  Or that Gandhi guy.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

Epimetheus

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Re: So, we need a definition of beauty.
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2012, 09:28:19 pm »
I don't know if y'all remember, but I agreed with Nigel in that thread.

ftr, this isn't a personal definition vs REAL definition thing. (My definition is in dictionaries, and I'm sure all of yours are too.) It's just an issue of clear communication of which definition is being used - which in that thread came down to reading what Nigel actually wrote, which made it very clear.
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Juana Go?

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Re: So, we need a definition of beauty.
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2012, 09:31:07 pm »
Okay, a mistaken impression then.  I apologize.

But I'm not sure how I could be considered "irritating".  I have the sunniest fucking disposition of anyone on this board, or any other.  I'm like Jesus.  Or that Gandhi guy.
Happens. I know I sometimes come off wrong, lol.
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Re: So, we need a definition of beauty.
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2012, 11:02:08 pm »
There are many definitions of beauty, most of which are made clear by the context in which they're used.

As far as human physical beauty goes, you may have a strikingly beautiful person who is emphatically NOT sexually attractive, but the type of beauty that is idolized in Western culture at this point in time is a fairly specific type, as Roger pointed out. Fuckable. Not just fuckable, but idealized fuckable, media-fuckable.

Ideas about desirable-beauty change over time and vary from culture to culture.

The Flathead indians strapped a board to their babies' heads so they would have a flat, sloping forehead. That was beautiful.

To the Mursi, this is desirable-beautiful:



In Mauritania, young girls are force-fed to fatten them up because obesity is desirable-beautiful: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18141550/ns/health-health_care/t/mauritania-struggles-love-fat-women/#.UIRwFIXOScs

Foot-binding, head-binding, corseting, neck rings, extreme pallor, fat, emaciation, weakness, scarification, tattoos, and other seemingly random and often painful attributes have been, at different times, considered desirable-beautiful among various cultures. Most of them seem to have little or nothing to do with health, and some of them decrease the chances of successful reproduction.
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Re: So, we need a definition of beauty.
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2012, 11:05:58 pm »
In some cultures, women are partially crippled by having to wear high heels for extended lengths of time.  This makes them desireable.

In other cultures, women smear chemicals all over their faces, to change their complexion, or put unnatural colors around their eyes.  This makes them desireable.

Another culture has their women get their asses surgically altered, to meet an accepted standard of beauty.

It's a good thing we're not a primitive society like the Mursi or anything.
" It's just that Depeche Mode were a bunch of optimistic loveburgers."
- TGRR, shaming himself forever, 7/8/2017

 "Billy, when I say that ethics is our number one priority and safety is also our number one priority, you should take that to mean exactly what I said. Also quality. That's our number one priority as well. Don't look at me that way, you're in the corporate world now and this is how it works."
- TGRR, raising the bar at work.

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Re: So, we need a definition of beauty.
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2012, 11:48:37 pm »
In some cultures, women are partially crippled by having to wear high heels for extended lengths of time.  This makes them desireable.

In other cultures, women smear chemicals all over their faces, to change their complexion, or put unnatural colors around their eyes.  This makes them desireable.

Another culture has their women get their asses surgically altered, to meet an accepted standard of beauty.

It's a good thing we're not a primitive society like the Mursi or anything.

This is why I don't really ever bother with trying to define some kind of objective or specific definition of "beauty". It varies too much over time and cultures. It's like trying to define "art"; largely useless, and inevitably devolves into wankery that derails the conversation.

“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”