So, we need a definition of beauty.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I realize I've said it on the boards before, but it continues to bother me that we can't praise one type of attractiveness without degrading another.

If you're into big women, I'm pretty sure you're capable of saying that without equating anything else to ten year old boys.  It'd be like calling any average woman a fattie because you only dig supermodels.

You can include more people into a group without removing some from it, and without continuing the idea that people should be ashamed of their bodies.

And just so we're clear, I've got a body type similar to that dude if you add way more hair and I'm fucking gorgeous.   

He is, you know.  When I was out there, I had to beat the parking wardens off of him with a pry bar.

[Eater of Clowns]

I realize I've said it on the boards before, but it continues to bother me that we can't praise one type of attractiveness without degrading another.

If you're into big women, I'm pretty sure you're capable of saying that without equating anything else to ten year old boys.  It'd be like calling any average woman a fattie because you only dig supermodels.

You can include more people into a group without removing some from it, and without continuing the idea that people should be ashamed of their bodies.

And just so we're clear, I've got a body type similar to that dude if you add way more hair and I'm fucking gorgeous.   

He is, you know.  When I was out there, I had to beat the parking wardens off of him with a pry bar.

It's a good thing I supress my hunger by keeping that pry bar shoved halfway down my throat so I can remain so skinny.  It really helps to keep that thing handy.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I realize I've said it on the boards before, but it continues to bother me that we can't praise one type of attractiveness without degrading another.

If you're into big women, I'm pretty sure you're capable of saying that without equating anything else to ten year old boys.  It'd be like calling any average woman a fattie because you only dig supermodels.

You can include more people into a group without removing some from it, and without continuing the idea that people should be ashamed of their bodies.

And just so we're clear, I've got a body type similar to that dude if you add way more hair and I'm fucking gorgeous.   

My bad. I'm a fitness nazi. Srsly. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Oh, I can see EoC flogging people with this for YEARS.   

[Eater of Clowns]

I realize I've said it on the boards before, but it continues to bother me that we can't praise one type of attractiveness without degrading another.

If you're into big women, I'm pretty sure you're capable of saying that without equating anything else to ten year old boys.  It'd be like calling any average woman a fattie because you only dig supermodels.

You can include more people into a group without removing some from it, and without continuing the idea that people should be ashamed of their bodies.

And just so we're clear, I've got a body type similar to that dude if you add way more hair and I'm fucking gorgeous.   

My bad. I'm a fitness nazi. Srsly. 

We've got to get our shit out in the open, P3nt.  Nigel said something like it in the other beauty thread, where we all make our appearance based judgments and the healthy thing about PD is that we recognize them and deal with them.  The other day I was in the deserted supermarket at 8:30 pm or so and I saw a pretty heavy woman walking with a double chocolate cake.  I immediately thought something like "she really doesn't need that" and then immediately after thought I'M A TERRIBLE FUCKING PERSON.  So I wasn't try to call you out, if it came across that way.

Oh, I can see EoC flogging people with this for YEARS.   

I think this comment has sailed past me.  Is it because I've mentioned this before?

[P3nT4gR4m]

Hell yeah. I get caught fair and square with my monkey hanging out I'll be the first to jump down my throat... or maybe the second.

[Faust]

I realize I've said it on the boards before, but it continues to bother me that we can't praise one type of attractiveness without degrading another.

If you're into big women, I'm pretty sure you're capable of saying that without equating anything else to ten year old boys.  It'd be like calling any average woman a fattie because you only dig supermodels.

You can include more people into a group without removing some from it, and without continuing the idea that people should be ashamed of their bodies.

And just so we're clear, I've got a body type similar to that dude if you add way more hair and I'm fucking gorgeous.   

Every body type is sexy, men and women all have their unique features. The only people I don't find beautiful are the ones that don't register, the boring ones who I can't distinguish or remember.

[NoLeDeMiel]

A request was made for a second thread, to cover the definition.

My personal opinion: 

Beauty:  Something or someone that I can look at that gives me pleasure by looking alone.  Alternately, a concept or other intangible that's damn near perfect.

Attractiveness:  As Garbo said, "fuckability". I'm not visually-geared, so in THIS case, beauty is a combination of pheremones and what's in the person's head.

Thank you for that. Reading through the quibbling in the other thread I kept thinking over and over why nobody had stipulated "visually". Sensually, smell plays a much bigger part than look in what I find attractive. I was beginning to think I was the only one.

Weird part is, the few things that really grab me visually, I could describe in perfect detail right down to my physiological response to them. Which smells attract or repel me, I couldn't even begin to generalize about even though when they hit me, they hit me like a fucking bar-stool. Probably has to do with being taught how to say, spell and identify colors in pre-K, and still not even being entirely sure if I could tell you what "acrid" means.

That also probably explains a lot about why I immediately wanted to jump on the OP in the other thread and start quibbling myself. My concept of visual beauty is so minute that I very, very rarely even think of it when I'm using the word beauty. My use of that word occurs much more in that alternate je ne sais quois sense, even when I'm explicitly using it to refer to sensual beauty.

This leaves kind of a tricky question, if the predominant understanding of "beauty" is visual physical attractiveness conforming to some objectively agreed upon standard, when I say "beautiful" in the sense I experience it, am I shooting off bad-signal without meaning to?

[stelz]

Now that you mention smell, it's sound, too, the voice...

[NoLeDeMiel]

I realize I've said it on the boards before, but it continues to bother me that we can't praise one type of attractiveness without degrading another.

If you're into big women, I'm pretty sure you're capable of saying that without equating anything else to ten year old boys.  It'd be like calling any average woman a fattie because you only dig supermodels.

You can include more people into a group without removing some from it, and without continuing the idea that people should be ashamed of their bodies.

And just so we're clear, I've got a body type similar to that dude if you add way more hair and I'm fucking gorgeous.   

Word!

(thread mingling) It's pretty fucking lame to me to see all this effort made to glorify the "+size" look and paint anyone who's skinny as some unhealthy anorexic basket case in the name of "promoting a healthy body image."

The fuck?

[LMNO, PhD (life continues)]

Except a lot of young girls are harming themselves to be that skinny.

Some women have a naturally thin body type.  Many women abuse their bodies to try to look that way.

So when we talk about women who are ultra skinny, we're talking about a majority of women who are damaging themselves to look that way, with an outlier of high-metabolism fat-burners.

[Faust]

Except a lot of young girls are harming themselves to be that skinny.

Some women have a naturally thin body type.  Many women abuse their bodies to try to look that way.

So when we talk about women who are ultra skinny, we're talking about a majority of women who are damaging themselves to look that way, with an outlier of high-metabolism fat-burners.

beauty and healthy are not synonymous. I find a lot of body molding hot even when it goes wrong or could only be sustained fleetingly. the same could be said for finding beauty in anorexia or morbid obesity. beauty can be dangerous.

[LMNO, PhD (life continues)]

That sounds a lot like you're ok with a culture promoting the damage of the physical and mental well-being of half the population for the benefit of a minority.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Life is fleeting, some pursuits make it fleetinger. You want to juggle chainsaws and die in a mess of mangled shit when you're in your 20's? That's your prerogative and fuck anyone who tells you otherwise.

If, however, the reason you want to juggle chainsaws is because all the magazines tell you you're worthless if you can't keep half a dozen Husqvarnas in the air then there's a problem there.

[LMNO, PhD (life continues)]

I think you said it better than I could, Pent.