Mental Health Question

[Mangrove]

Hi Hoops,

I've had two moderate/severe bouts of anxiety in my life in the 90s.  What you describe in your post are things that I can totally relate to. For instance, I'd be tootling along in town, minding my own and then a wave of hot, sweaty, nausea would wash over me. Then I'd feel dissociated from all the people around me and get into existentialist disgust "Arggh...look at all the the teeming faceless masses. ESCAPE! ESCAPE!"

These episodes of 'Teh Horror' would often be accompanied by what I thought was depression (because I certainly felt down about a lot of things) but I later discovered via therapy, was actually anger, especially anger directed at myself. This occurred around 1993-94 or so.

I thought I was losing my mind and began to fear for my own safety because while I had never attempted suicide, I did think about it rather too often. I dropped out of college after 6 months, went home and went to see my Dr whose genius response was that I 'drink less coffee' and perhaps see a career adviser. Gee, thanks.

Fortunately for me, my parents were persistent enough to send me to a different doctor who immediately said "Wow, you sound really anxious". She wrote a script for a mild anti-anxiety and referred me to a therapist who did Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT). The CBT guy was fantastic because he very quickly bust the 'I'm going out of my mind and no one understands me'bubble. I think I only saw him for a couple of appointments and felt a hell of a lot better. Because of that, I didn't bother with the meds because I didn't like how they made me feel. I carried them around in my pocket with me for months 'just in case' but, in the end, I threw them out. 

Jump forward to 1998 and I had become a holy mess once again. Basically, I was in a situation in which I had (daily) to expend an enormous amount of mental/emotional energy keeping someone near & dear to me propped up to get them through a situation to which I had absolutely not an ounce of control. Well, you can only do that for so long before you start to get buggy. After a bout of food poisoning, my anxiety attached itself to food. I couldn't control the situation that was draining me, but I could control what I ate. And so, I got into a loop of anxiety that centered on in irrational fear of getting food poisoning again.

I went to see another Doctor, they referred me to a therapist who, unfortunately, was not the awesome CBT guy but actually a well meaning but disinterested touchy-feely therapist. I was going to sessions but didn't really feel that they were going anywhere. I was struck by the realization that "At one point of my life, I wasn't anxious. Therefore, if the state existed before, it can exist again. I will figure out what caused this and fix it myself."

I hit the bookstore and started checking out books on stress & anxiety. I made alterations to my diet (Potatoes Not Prozac - great read) and began training myself with anti-anxiety techniques. Have to say that the diet change caused the most significant shift at first. So much so that people were saying to me "What the hell happened to you? You are soooo different now!". Discovering that my blood sugar spiking/crashing was contributing to the anxiety  gave me the space to analyze why I was feeling anxious, how to recognize the onset of an episode and how to moderate it. I realized that for me, managing this was a skill that required a few fuck ups and plenty of practise.

In spite of feeling better and telling my therapist that I had taken all these great steps to be a healthier person, she didn't believe me. Naturally, I stopped going for appointments. Through a combination of diet, exercise, body work, stress relief and study. It is this experience that lead me to study massage/body work therapy and really get into the subject of mind/body interaction.

The process I discovered was:

a) Anxiety - random horror! Avoid!!
b) Anxiety - random horror! Resist!
c) Anxiety - actually not random, has a pattern to it.
d) Anxiety - can be managed.
e) Anxiety - can be observed.
f) Anxiety -  has content to it. (What does it want?)

This was a shift from "I'm under attack!" to "This is a very loud warning signal that's trying to warn, not punish me."

It turned out to be a weird sort of gift. Because I felt like crap I sought help and found it lacking, so I kept pushing, learned all sorts of interesting things and got a new career in the bargain. Now I'm oddly grateful that I lost my shit in 1998.

Definitely see your Dr. I've found therapy useful though it depends on the therapy and the person. Often, I think the person can be more important than the modality. I personally didn't like the meds, but I would never tell people to not do them because I believe they can, when used appropriately, provide a necessary buffer zone. Do research.  Be prepared to sort wheat from the chaff when it comes to the medical profession. There’s a chance you can be fobbed off, ignored, misdiagnosed or channeled into a line of least resistance treatment. Be persistent – the people who know what they’re talking about are out there and you can find them. Tell your family & friends of ‘signs to look for’ so they can help when you are either working up to or already in an episode. They can be a big help in getting you back to reality.

YMMV, hope this helps!

Mangrove

[P3nT4gR4m]

Hi Hoops,

I've had two moderate/severe bouts of anxiety in my life in the 90s.  What you describe in your post are things that I can totally relate to. For instance, I'd be tootling along in town, minding my own and then a wave of hot, sweaty, nausea would wash over me. Then I'd feel dissociated from all the people around me and get into existentialist disgust "Arggh...look at all the the teeming faceless masses. ESCAPE! ESCAPE!"

These episodes of 'Teh Horror' would often be accompanied by what I thought was depression (because I certainly felt down about a lot of things) but I later discovered via therapy, was actually anger, especially anger directed at myself. This occurred around 1993-94 or so.

I thought I was losing my mind and began to fear for my own safety because while I had never attempted suicide, I did think about it rather too often. I dropped out of college after 6 months, went home and went to see my Dr whose genius response was that I 'drink less coffee' and perhaps see a career adviser. Gee, thanks.

Fortunately for me, my parents were persistent enough to send me to a different doctor who immediately said "Wow, you sound really anxious". She wrote a script for a mild anti-anxiety and referred me to a therapist who did Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT). The CBT guy was fantastic because he very quickly bust the 'I'm going out of my mind and no one understands me'bubble. I think I only saw him for a couple of appointments and felt a hell of a lot better. Because of that, I didn't bother with the meds because I didn't like how they made me feel. I carried them around in my pocket with me for months 'just in case' but, in the end, I threw them out. 

Jump forward to 1998 and I had become a holy mess once again. Basically, I was in a situation in which I had (daily) to expend an enormous amount of mental/emotional energy keeping someone near & dear to me propped up to get them through a situation to which I had absolutely not an ounce of control. Well, you can only do that for so long before you start to get buggy. After a bout of food poisoning, my anxiety attached itself to food. I couldn't control the situation that was draining me, but I could control what I ate. And so, I got into a loop of anxiety that centered on in irrational fear of getting food poisoning again.

I went to see another Doctor, they referred me to a therapist who, unfortunately, was not the awesome CBT guy but actually a well meaning but disinterested touchy-feely therapist. I was going to sessions but didn't really feel that they were going anywhere. I was struck by the realization that "At one point of my life, I wasn't anxious. Therefore, if the state existed before, it can exist again. I will figure out what caused this and fix it myself."

I hit the bookstore and started checking out books on stress & anxiety. I made alterations to my diet (Potatoes Not Prozac - great read) and began training myself with anti-anxiety techniques. Have to say that the diet change caused the most significant shift at first. So much so that people were saying to me "What the hell happened to you? You are soooo different now!". Discovering that my blood sugar spiking/crashing was contributing to the anxiety  gave me the space to analyze why I was feeling anxious, how to recognize the onset of an episode and how to moderate it. I realized that for me, managing this was a skill that required a few fuck ups and plenty of practise.

In spite of feeling better and telling my therapist that I had taken all these great steps to be a healthier person, she didn't believe me. Naturally, I stopped going for appointments. Through a combination of diet, exercise, body work, stress relief and study. It is this experience that lead me to study massage/body work therapy and really get into the subject of mind/body interaction.

The process I discovered was:

a) Anxiety - random horror! Avoid!!
b) Anxiety - random horror! Resist!
c) Anxiety - actually not random, has a pattern to it.
d) Anxiety - can be managed.
e) Anxiety - can be observed.
f) Anxiety -  has content to it. (What does it want?)

This was a shift from "I'm under attack!" to "This is a very loud warning signal that's trying to warn, not punish me."

It turned out to be a weird sort of gift. Because I felt like crap I sought help and found it lacking, so I kept pushing, learned all sorts of interesting things and got a new career in the bargain. Now I'm oddly grateful that I lost my shit in 1998.

Definitely see your Dr. I've found therapy useful though it depends on the therapy and the person. Often, I think the person can be more important than the modality. I personally didn't like the meds, but I would never tell people to not do them because I believe they can, when used appropriately, provide a necessary buffer zone. Do research.  Be prepared to sort wheat from the chaff when it comes to the medical profession. There’s a chance you can be fobbed off, ignored, misdiagnosed or channeled into a line of least resistance treatment. Be persistent – the people who know what they’re talking about are out there and you can find them. Tell your family & friends of ‘signs to look for’ so they can help when you are either working up to or already in an episode. They can be a big help in getting you back to reality.

YMMV, hope this helps!

Mangrove

Mental illness post of the fucking decade!!! I kicked bipolar into touch using a similar (if not identical) approach. If I'd read this post back then, shit would have been a lot easier.

[Net]

Get some professional help, but only on your own terms. If they don't click with you immediately, move on.

Also, be prepared to move on.

As a person that was crippled by worry for much of my early years, an hour of difficult exercise a day has been a major factor in making anxiety a non-issue for the better part of a decade. It's no panacea, but it goes a loooooooong way.

[Bu☆ns]

Hoopla, I had some reoccurring anxiety for a while last year two years ago*.  I wrote a thread about it: here. I linked to a short audio book on amazon, but if i can find my copy, I'd be happy to send it along. 

The techniques described worked surprisingly well. 

Also, Good luck!



* Jeeseh, feels like only last year...

[Hoopla]

Thank you everyone, especially Mag, your suggestions have all been noted and will be followed to the best of my ability until one contradicts another.

[Mangrove]

Thank you everyone, especially Mag, your suggestions have all been noted and will be followed to the best of my ability until one contradicts another.

Good luck sir! You can always PM me if you would like.

Mang'

[ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S.]

I hit the bookstore and started checking out books on stress & anxiety. I made alterations to my diet (Potatoes Not Prozac - great read) and began training myself with anti-anxiety techniques. Have to say that the diet change caused the most significant shift at first. So much so that people were saying to me "What the hell happened to you? You are soooo different now!". Discovering that my blood sugar spiking/crashing was contributing to the anxiety  gave me the space to analyze why I was feeling anxious, how to recognize the onset of an episode and how to moderate it. I realized that for me, managing this was a skill that required a few fuck ups and plenty of practise.

Oh. OHHHHHHHHH. *total light goes on moment*

Well, that certainly explains some things. I thought it was just irritation and anger. Looks like I need to pay more attention.

[Alty]

What helps me (I want to say what DID help me, but it comes back every so often, like an old injury) is to remember I have two brains.

The first brain is the one that's typing this. It sits right in front of my skull, so as to get a good view. And it needs stimulus and isolation in whatever measures it demands. Both are essential. This brain and I have an understanding. We help each other out, it tells me where my keys are and let's me tell myself everthing is okay.

The other brain does not listen. I can tell it whatever I want, but that won't stop the anxiety or the catastrophizing or the feeling like a thousand angry, sweaty primates searching for some long-lost jungle screaming at my other brain, which just cowers in fear.

So working my way through it in my head doesn't work with that brain. It's sort of stupid, for a brain. SO, instead, I show it what's what using the only language it understand: the visceral kind. If my other wants to act like a screaming primate, by god I am going to treat it like one. I do things that are physical, or things that show no immediate signs of effectiveness. Taking a hot bath at the same time every day, exercise (long stretching sessions usually do the job), making sure I'm actually eating enough because I hate food. Routine, dependability. Anything that makes the other brain STFU because it's busy.

What helps me is knowing there's just some things I can't talk my way out of and I have to DO something, anything.

[M. Nigel Salt]

Lots of good advice in here already. The dissociation/anxiety/vertigo/nausea does sound like anxiety attacks, and the lack of general enjoyment sounds like depression. However, what Mangrove said about checking your blood sugar is a really good idea, and there are a couple of other things you might want to get checked for. One is irregular heartbeat, which many people assume is a symptom of anxiety attacks when it is actually causing them, and the other is a seizure disorder, particularly if you have vision or other mood disturbances during the day preceding or following an attack. For example, if the quality of light seems unusually grey but colors seems unusually vivid, or it all feels very heavy or muted, or if you become suddenly irrationally angry, or if you have a strong sensation of deja vu or jamais vu before an attack. Or if the top of your head feels tight and prickly, or if everything seems very slow or surreal, or if it feels like that forboding moment when a big storm is about to roll in and you can hear your heartbeat, right before you hear the thunder. Flashes of light around your peripheral vision is also a possible warning for seizures, but can also be a symptom of hypertension, which you should also have checked.

Neither of those would explain the general lack of enjoyment, though. That still sounds like depression.

[Mangrove]

Kai - Understanding that my blood sugar was funky transformed my life in 2 weeks. I'm rail thin and my body is thermally inefficient, throwing off lots of heat all the time. As such, I've always leaned towards the hypoglycaemic. When you add persistent stress to an already finicky blood sugar balance, I was all over the place. The stress spiked/crashed my blood sugar and then I ate stuff that continued to amplify the spikes which lead to spectacular crashing.

Think I mentioned it above, but if anyone is getting anxious & panicky and they think it might have some nutritional component, then check Potatoes Not Prozac. I love this book because the info changed my life rapidly & dramatically as well as keeping me out of therapy and off medication. Obviously, that's not going to be the case for everyone, but I always recommend it to people because there may be simple steps they can employ that potentially, can have a huge impact. Having read this book and understood the patterns I had, I realized that they were also present in other members of my family. That was especially useful to know.

Alty - "Give IT something to do" is pretty much what every meditation/yoga has said about the dreaded monkey brain for the last few thousand years. If one can navigate their way through the hippy dippy stuff and other adornments, some of those ancient yoga guys made some pretty smart assessments about the relationship between body & mind. Also, routine and discipline while very hard to cultivate are vital. Establishing a regularity in one's life cuts out a lot of uncertainty & guesswork which, in itself, can be rich source of 'shit to worry about'.

Nigel/MG - Nice point about heart irregularity. Sometimes, these things cut both ways. There's been some interesting work done about heart/brain interaction. I think in the past, people just took the view that the brain told all the organs what to do and that was that. Seems that now, anatomists are starting to see that the complex neural plexuses around organs function as 'mini brains' and that organ communication to & from the brain is a lot more dynamic.

[ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S.]

Kai - Understanding that my blood sugar was funky transformed my life in 2 weeks. I'm rail thin and my body is thermally inefficient, throwing off lots of heat all the time. As such, I've always leaned towards the hypoglycaemic. When you add persistent stress to an already finicky blood sugar balance, I was all over the place. The stress spiked/crashed my blood sugar and then I ate stuff that continued to amplify the spikes which lead to spectacular crashing.

Think I mentioned it above, but if anyone is getting anxious & panicky and they think it might have some nutritional component, then check Potatoes Not Prozac. I love this book because the info changed my life rapidly & dramatically as well as keeping me out of therapy and off medication. Obviously, that's not going to be the case for everyone, but I always recommend it to people because there may be simple steps they can employ that potentially, can have a huge impact. Having read this book and understood the patterns I had, I realized that they were also present in other members of my family. That was especially useful to know.

I've known for a long time that I have a tendency to go hypoglycemic, but it wasn't till last week that I started seeing massive spiking as well. I've known the anger/irritation connection, but hadn't considered stress as well.

I've distinctly noticed that, while most kinds of fruit and bread spike my blood sugar, potatoes and oats don't. I'm kind of disinclined to take dietary advice from anyone except my doctor right now, but what you have said of that book makes sense in my experience.

[Mangrove]

Kai - Understanding that my blood sugar was funky transformed my life in 2 weeks. I'm rail thin and my body is thermally inefficient, throwing off lots of heat all the time. As such, I've always leaned towards the hypoglycaemic. When you add persistent stress to an already finicky blood sugar balance, I was all over the place. The stress spiked/crashed my blood sugar and then I ate stuff that continued to amplify the spikes which lead to spectacular crashing.

Think I mentioned it above, but if anyone is getting anxious & panicky and they think it might have some nutritional component, then check Potatoes Not Prozac. I love this book because the info changed my life rapidly & dramatically as well as keeping me out of therapy and off medication. Obviously, that's not going to be the case for everyone, but I always recommend it to people because there may be simple steps they can employ that potentially, can have a huge impact. Having read this book and understood the patterns I had, I realized that they were also present in other members of my family. That was especially useful to know.

I've known for a long time that I have a tendency to go hypoglycemic, but it wasn't till last week that I started seeing massive spiking as well. I've known the anger/irritation connection, but hadn't considered stress as well.

I've distinctly noticed that, while most kinds of fruit and bread spike my blood sugar, potatoes and oats don't. I'm kind of disinclined to take dietary advice from anyone except my doctor right now, but what you have said of that book makes sense in my experience.

The stress response will spike the blood sugar. Here's some notes from a presentation I do on stress management:

1.   Hypothalamus and pituitary, the body’s master gland, trigger the ‘fight or flight’ mechanism.
2.   Pupils of your eyes widen to let in more light.
3.   Mouth becomes dry as saliva production shuts down.
4.   Heart rate quickens to increase blood supply to the muscles.
5.   Breathing speeds up to increase oxygen intake.
6.   Sugar and fat is released from the liver for energy.
7.   Muscles tense ready for action and release lactic acid into the bloodstream.
8.   Blood leaves the frontal lobes of the brain and digestive organs.
9.   Sweating increases and temperature falls.
10.   Adrenal glands release stress hormones, adrenaline and noradrenalin.
11.   Subcutaneous fat is released into the blood stream to provide more energy.
12.   Bowels and kidneys decrease output so body is ready for action.
13.   Blood sugar rises, pulse rate increases, blood pressure rises, and calcium is metabolized.
14.   Too much sugar in the system. Hyperglycemic alarm.
15.   Pancreas releases insulin to balance blood sugar level.
16.   Blood sugar level drops suddenly.
17.   Shocks the system.
18.   Converts sugars to fats.
19.   Can form gallstones and lines the arteries.
20.   Mental processes affected behavioral change.
21.   Aggression, confusion, depression.
22.   Structural faults develop through reflex muscle imbalance.

Our 'stress response' evolved to be a short term reply to immediate physical threat. You're walking along, you see a lion or whatever in your peripheral vision and voila - you either fight the lion, escape the lion or get eaten (or a combination of all three!). The quirky devil that is 'mother nature' made us one of the only animals to persistently trigger our alarm mechanism, not by external, short term, physical threats but by psychologically dwelling on 'possible threats'. When triggered periodically, it's not an issue. The trouble lay in persistently firing the response and having no useful outlet for it. This causes a problematic adaptation - our sympathetic alarm system gets triggered too often for too long and then has problem getting back into a normal state.

What you described re: food is exactly what I learned from the book. As a kid I used to eat poorly and be really into sugar. What I discovered later was that I wasn't getting enough protein and that I needed to take carbohydrates in more complex forms that didn't break down as fast. Simple carbs will spike the blood sugar more readily in hypoglycaemics than it will in other people. I avoid sugary things, anything with a lot of white & refined flours because they seem to shock the body in the same way. I cut my caffeine intake and I never EVER drink coffee on an empty stomach.

Whole grains, brown bread, spuds etc break down a lot slower and obviously, no one ever got a sugar hit out of broccoli! Here's a useful tip from the book that I've used for years. Check the nutrition label of any food you pick up. Look at the part that says 'Carbohydrate' and then look at the part that says 'of which is sugar'. If the second number is more than 1/3 of the total carb amount, it's got too many simple carbs and it's liable to spike you.

I don't blame you for being wary about dietary advice. I was too because there's a lot of stupid books out there, especially ones geared towards weight loss. I don't think there's anything in the book that would conflict with your Drs advice or your scientific sensibilities 

[ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S.]

Kai - Understanding that my blood sugar was funky transformed my life in 2 weeks. I'm rail thin and my body is thermally inefficient, throwing off lots of heat all the time. As such, I've always leaned towards the hypoglycaemic. When you add persistent stress to an already finicky blood sugar balance, I was all over the place. The stress spiked/crashed my blood sugar and then I ate stuff that continued to amplify the spikes which lead to spectacular crashing.

Think I mentioned it above, but if anyone is getting anxious & panicky and they think it might have some nutritional component, then check Potatoes Not Prozac. I love this book because the info changed my life rapidly & dramatically as well as keeping me out of therapy and off medication. Obviously, that's not going to be the case for everyone, but I always recommend it to people because there may be simple steps they can employ that potentially, can have a huge impact. Having read this book and understood the patterns I had, I realized that they were also present in other members of my family. That was especially useful to know.

I've known for a long time that I have a tendency to go hypoglycemic, but it wasn't till last week that I started seeing massive spiking as well. I've known the anger/irritation connection, but hadn't considered stress as well.

I've distinctly noticed that, while most kinds of fruit and bread spike my blood sugar, potatoes and oats don't. I'm kind of disinclined to take dietary advice from anyone except my doctor right now, but what you have said of that book makes sense in my experience.

The stress response will spike the blood sugar. Here's some notes from a presentation I do on stress management:

1.   Hypothalamus and pituitary, the body’s master gland, trigger the ‘fight or flight’ mechanism.
2.   Pupils of your eyes widen to let in more light.
3.   Mouth becomes dry as saliva production shuts down.
4.   Heart rate quickens to increase blood supply to the muscles.
5.   Breathing speeds up to increase oxygen intake.
6.   Sugar and fat is released from the liver for energy.
7.   Muscles tense ready for action and release lactic acid into the bloodstream.
8.   Blood leaves the frontal lobes of the brain and digestive organs.
9.   Sweating increases and temperature falls.
10.   Adrenal glands release stress hormones, adrenaline and noradrenalin.
11.   Subcutaneous fat is released into the blood stream to provide more energy.
12.   Bowels and kidneys decrease output so body is ready for action.
13.   Blood sugar rises, pulse rate increases, blood pressure rises, and calcium is metabolized.
14.   Too much sugar in the system. Hyperglycemic alarm.
15.   Pancreas releases insulin to balance blood sugar level.
16.   Blood sugar level drops suddenly.
17.   Shocks the system.
18.   Converts sugars to fats.
19.   Can form gallstones and lines the arteries.
20.   Mental processes affected behavioral change.
21.   Aggression, confusion, depression.
22.   Structural faults develop through reflex muscle imbalance.

Our 'stress response' evolved to be a short term reply to immediate physical threat. You're walking along, you see a lion or whatever in your peripheral vision and voila - you either fight the lion, escape the lion or get eaten (or a combination of all three!). The quirky devil that is 'mother nature' made us one of the only animals to persistently trigger our alarm mechanism, not by external, short term, physical threats but by psychologically dwelling on 'possible threats'. When triggered periodically, it's not an issue. The trouble lay in persistently firing the response and having no useful outlet for it. This causes a problematic adaptation - our sympathetic alarm system gets triggered too often for too long and then has problem getting back into a normal state.

What you described re: food is exactly what I learned from the book. As a kid I used to eat poorly and be really into sugar. What I discovered later was that I wasn't getting enough protein and that I needed to take carbohydrates in more complex forms that didn't break down as fast. Simple carbs will spike the blood sugar more readily in hypoglycaemics than it will in other people. I avoid sugary things, anything with a lot of white & refined flours because they seem to shock the body in the same way. I cut my caffeine intake and I never EVER drink coffee on an empty stomach.

Whole grains, brown bread, spuds etc break down a lot slower and obviously, no one ever got a sugar hit out of broccoli! Here's a useful tip from the book that I've used for years. Check the nutrition label of any food you pick up. Look at the part that says 'Carbohydrate' and then look at the part that says 'of which is sugar'. If the second number is more than 1/3 of the total carb amount, it's got too many simple carbs and it's liable to spike you.

I don't blame you for being wary about dietary advice. I was too because there's a lot of stupid books out there, especially ones geared towards weight loss. I don't think there's anything in the book that would conflict with your Drs advice or your scientific sensibilities 

The problem is also that many Drs. have their own pet project they turn into books, that ends up being their end all solution to all dietary needs ever. Which means that most dietary books contradict each other in some way. Here you see you should limit your animal protein and fat intake. Here, no, it's the sugar from fruits and breads you need to limit. Here, beans are excellent for you. Here, beans are to be avoided. And you have the followers, who preach the goodness of that diet as if it were religion. So, I'm going to run self experiments. I have a relatively good handle on what's going on in my body if I pay attention. And I have a glucose tester. So, what I have to do is follow the Buddha's advice and test these claims, throwing out the stuff that doesn't work. Since everyone's tolerance is different, I have to self-tailor my diet. Otherwise I end up with something that doesn't fit right.

What I've found so far is, caffeine is an issue (even green tea). As is not sleeping well or enough. Alcohol, in the evening, is not, as long as it's low in sugar; I shouldn't drink beer but red wine is more than fine. Butter is like a godsend. It has a lot of calories but it's almost all fat, which burns slow, and doesn't spike my blood sugar at all. I can't do bananas, or other sweet fruits (even some apples), but blackberries, raspberries, and blueberries are just fine. Whole wheat bread and buckwheat noodles are fine as long as I eat spaced out small portions, but any more than that and it's too much. Water is a funny one. If I keep my blood sugar low, I can get by on drinking a liter of water a day. But if it's high, I need 2 or 3 times that amount. This isn't counting the water I get from foods. Brown Rice: I can eat a bunch of it and it doesn't bother me at all, especially with the collard greens I'm usually eating along with it.

And some of the above probably won't work for most other people.

[LMNO, PhD (life continues)]

SCIENCE!

[ZL 'Kai' Burington, M.S.]

SCIENCE!

And it's the sort of science that /anyone/ with an ounce of self discipline and a blood glucose monitor can do.