Author Topic: On behalf of aspies  (Read 1095 times)

Doktor Skinsaw

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On behalf of aspies
« on: November 12, 2012, 05:33:21 pm »
I would like to ask us, we, the Internet population of peers with an overlap of common interests, generally known as "Pee Dee dot com", come together to rethink our usage of the term "aspie" to describe every amusingly incorrect pedant who is too hung up on their own ego to admit when they make a mistake.

I freely admit that until about two weeks ago I used, and would have defended the use of the term, and the use of the term assburger (which I still might use and/or find defensible, I haven't decided yet). I would have defended it thusly: that it is not actually making fun of people with mild autism, but making fun of people who display stereotypical characteristics often ascribed to mild autism, AKA Asperger's syndrome, such as lack of empathy, pedantry, and displaying a poor understanding of normal social interactions. There is, however, one thing all these people share which is not at all typical of autism, which is having an ego so fragile they cannot admit error. In my experience, autistic people may make social blunders, but they care more about being correct than being "right", and will readily admit factual errors. If they make them, which is not terribly common because they like to confirm facts before they insist on them.

Let me explain what changed my mind. About two weeks ago, Telarus, our fellow PD spag and also a local PDX spag, commented that one of our other local fellows, a spag called Kassianne, finds our use of the term "aspie" to describe egobound assholes with shitty social skills insulting and degrading. Kassianne is autistic. She is also lovely and fun and insightful. At one point in time, I would probably have responded with the sentiment that she needs to grow a sense of humor or somesuch shite, but in reflection on a lot of the conversations we've had here over the past year or so, intelligent and insightful and screeching and abrasive conversations in which I felt like all of us confronted some of our ugly habits and assumptions and got a little more bipedal, I concluded that Kassianne is right. It is insulting and degrading. I thought about all the autistic people in my life, including my ex-husband, my daughter, my brother, my good friend's son, and Kassianne, and I have decided that I am not comfortable using that term anymore.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”

“People get used to anything. The less you think about your oppression, the more your tolerance for it grows. After a while, people just think oppression is the normal state of things. But to become free, you have to be acutely aware of being a slave.”
― Assata Shaku

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: On behalf of aspies
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2012, 05:36:04 pm »
I'm on board.  It's too much like saying "cunt", etc, now that I think about it, and it - as you say - isn't even an accurate use of the term.

Gonna use "Assburger" til we think of something more appropriate.

Mostly because the word "assburger" makes me giggle, because I am an idiot.
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Pope Pixie Pickle

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Re: On behalf of aspies
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2012, 05:40:40 pm »
I would like to ask us, we, the Internet population of peers with an overlap of common interests, generally known as "Pee Dee dot com", come together to rethink our usage of the term "aspie" to describe every amusingly incorrect pedant who is too hung up on their own ego to admit when they make a mistake.

I freely admit that until about two weeks ago I used, and would have defended the use of the term, and the use of the term assburger (which I still might use and/or find defensible, I haven't decided yet). I would have defended it thusly: that it is not actually making fun of people with mild autism, but making fun of people who display stereotypical characteristics often ascribed to mild autism, AKA Asperger's syndrome, such as lack of empathy, pedantry, and displaying a poor understanding of normal social interactions. There is, however, one thing all these people share which is not at all typical of autism, which is having an ego so fragile they cannot admit error. In my experience, autistic people may make social blunders, but they care more about being correct than being "right", and will readily admit factual errors. If they make them, which is not terribly common because they like to confirm facts before they insist on them.

Let me explain what changed my mind. About two weeks ago, Telarus, our fellow PD spag and also a local PDX spag, commented that one of our other local fellows, a spag called Kassianne, finds our use of the term "aspie" to describe egobound assholes with shitty social skills insulting and degrading. Kassianne is autistic. She is also lovely and fun and insightful. At one point in time, I would probably have responded with the sentiment that she needs to grow a sense of humor or somesuch shite, but in reflection on a lot of the conversations we've had here over the past year or so, intelligent and insightful and screeching and abrasive conversations in which I felt like all of us confronted some of our ugly habits and assumptions and got a little more bipedal, I concluded that Kassianne is right. It is insulting and degrading. I thought about all the autistic people in my life, including my ex-husband, my daughter, my brother, my good friend's son, and Kassianne, and I have decided that I am not comfortable using that term anymore.

SECONDED!

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: On behalf of aspies
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2012, 05:49:08 pm »
Other thing is, the term "aspie" itself should be a warning sign, as a shortened, derogatory version of "Aspger's Syndrome victim".

One thing, however:  I have been using the term "retarded" for 30+ years to describe someone who CAN think, but WON'T.  For people who CAN'T think properly due to brain damage of one sort or another, I say "brain damaged". 

You People can't make me give up the term "retarded".
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Juana Go?

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Re: On behalf of aspies
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2012, 06:00:39 pm »
I was having this very train of thought recently. So, thirded.
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Re: On behalf of aspies
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2012, 06:36:08 pm »
Two points of clarifiaction needed:

One: The person who has self-diagnosed (i.e. they looked it up on Wikepedia and decided it applies to them) themselves as having Asperger's;

Two: Someone who actually has Asperger's, and continues to act like a dick even when we make an attempt to help.
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Doktor Skinsaw

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Re: On behalf of aspies
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2012, 06:44:26 pm »
I'm on board.  It's too much like saying "cunt", etc, now that I think about it, and it - as you say - isn't even an accurate use of the term.

Gonna use "Assburger" til we think of something more appropriate.

Mostly because the word "assburger" makes me giggle, because I am an idiot.

Yeah, I can't get past the funny, either. Assburger is just a funny word. :lol: Yes, I have the maturity of a 12-year-old.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”

“People get used to anything. The less you think about your oppression, the more your tolerance for it grows. After a while, people just think oppression is the normal state of things. But to become free, you have to be acutely aware of being a slave.”
― Assata Shaku

Doktor Skinsaw

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Re: On behalf of aspies
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2012, 06:45:59 pm »
Two points of clarifiaction needed:

One: The person who has self-diagnosed (i.e. they looked it up on Wikepedia and decided it applies to them) themselves as having Asperger's;

Two: Someone who actually has Asperger's, and continues to act like a dick even when we make an attempt to help.

Why do we need those points of clarification? Seems like "internet diagnosis, LOL" covers the first base, and I'm unclear on the relevance of the second one as I'm only aware of that having happened once here, and we already have a word for it; IANAR.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”

“People get used to anything. The less you think about your oppression, the more your tolerance for it grows. After a while, people just think oppression is the normal state of things. But to become free, you have to be acutely aware of being a slave.”
― Assata Shaku

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: On behalf of aspies
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2012, 06:47:16 pm »
Two points of clarifiaction needed:

One: The person who has self-diagnosed (i.e. they looked it up on Wikepedia and decided it applies to them) themselves as having Asperger's;

Two: Someone who actually has Asperger's, and continues to act like a dick even when we make an attempt to help.

Why do we need those points of clarification? Seems like "internet diagnosis, LOL" covers the first base, and I'm unclear on the relevance of the second one as I'm only aware of that having happened once here, and we already have a word for it; IANAR.

IANAR was, IIRC, self-diagnosed.  It was his cover for having a head full of bad wiring, which is another issue altogether.
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Doktor Skinsaw

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Re: On behalf of aspies
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2012, 07:01:59 pm »
Two points of clarifiaction needed:

One: The person who has self-diagnosed (i.e. they looked it up on Wikepedia and decided it applies to them) themselves as having Asperger's;

Two: Someone who actually has Asperger's, and continues to act like a dick even when we make an attempt to help.

Why do we need those points of clarification? Seems like "internet diagnosis, LOL" covers the first base, and I'm unclear on the relevance of the second one as I'm only aware of that having happened once here, and we already have a word for it; IANAR.

IANAR was, IIRC, self-diagnosed.  It was his cover for having a head full of bad wiring, which is another issue altogether.

Yeah, dude is all kinds of messed up. Internet self-diagnosis of Aspergers is just the tip of the iceberg. Seems like he's got a personality disorder, if you ask me.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”

“People get used to anything. The less you think about your oppression, the more your tolerance for it grows. After a while, people just think oppression is the normal state of things. But to become free, you have to be acutely aware of being a slave.”
― Assata Shaku

Doktor Skinsaw

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Re: On behalf of aspies
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2012, 07:06:08 pm »
I have to say, the only autistic people I have actually met who were dicks were the ones who were dicks who happen to be autistic. Most of the ones I know make social blunders because they don't pick up on nonverbal or emotional cues very well, and then feel awful about it, but they aren't outright dicks. They also tend to be shy, because they're self-conscious about making social blunders.

Kind of the opposite of the IANARs of the world.
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”

“People get used to anything. The less you think about your oppression, the more your tolerance for it grows. After a while, people just think oppression is the normal state of things. But to become free, you have to be acutely aware of being a slave.”
― Assata Shaku

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Re: On behalf of aspies
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2012, 07:12:13 pm »
I guess I was trying to say that we've adopted the word "aspie" more as shorthand for "socially inept asshole hiding behind self-diagnosis", more or less divorcing it from "functionally autistic", and it's pretty clear we wouldn't mock an actual Asperger's diagnosis purely out-of-hand, so we probably don't have to scourge ourselves for using it.

But then I realized I was actively looking for something to argue about, and generally avoiding the point of the OP.  Which would pretty much put me into the catagory of people I'm criticizing.  Which made me chuckle and shake my head.


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Buy the Chao te Ching, or be doomed forever.

http://www.stonybrook.edu/sb/marburger/index.shtml

"Get offa me, you freaks!  This is not North Korea.  No.  This is America, and I expect to be PAID for that sort of nonsense.  In advance.  No credit...Cash on the barrelhead or GTFO.  I swear to God, there's nothing more annoying than commie perverts who don't understand the intrinsic value of the free market system."

The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: On behalf of aspies
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2012, 07:19:18 pm »
Two points of clarifiaction needed:

One: The person who has self-diagnosed (i.e. they looked it up on Wikepedia and decided it applies to them) themselves as having Asperger's;

Two: Someone who actually has Asperger's, and continues to act like a dick even when we make an attempt to help.

Why do we need those points of clarification? Seems like "internet diagnosis, LOL" covers the first base, and I'm unclear on the relevance of the second one as I'm only aware of that having happened once here, and we already have a word for it; IANAR.

IANAR was, IIRC, self-diagnosed.  It was his cover for having a head full of bad wiring, which is another issue altogether.

Yeah, dude is all kinds of messed up. Internet self-diagnosis of Aspergers is just the tip of the iceberg. Seems like he's got a personality disorder, if you ask me.

We Doktors refer to that disorder as "Being a dick".

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The Good Reverend Roger

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Re: On behalf of aspies
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2012, 07:19:47 pm »
I guess I was trying to say that we've adopted the word "aspie" more as shorthand for "socially inept asshole hiding behind self-diagnosis", more or less divorcing it from "functionally autistic", and it's pretty clear we wouldn't mock an actual Asperger's diagnosis purely out-of-hand, so we probably don't have to scourge ourselves for using it.

But then I realized I was actively looking for something to argue about, and generally avoiding the point of the OP.  Which would pretty much put me into the catagory of people I'm criticizing.  Which made me chuckle and shake my head.


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I'd giggle a bit, but this is the FIRST thread of this type where I didn't argue right off the bat.

:lol:
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Doktor Skinsaw

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Re: On behalf of aspies
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2012, 07:20:51 pm »
Two points of clarifiaction needed:

One: The person who has self-diagnosed (i.e. they looked it up on Wikepedia and decided it applies to them) themselves as having Asperger's;

Two: Someone who actually has Asperger's, and continues to act like a dick even when we make an attempt to help.

Why do we need those points of clarification? Seems like "internet diagnosis, LOL" covers the first base, and I'm unclear on the relevance of the second one as I'm only aware of that having happened once here, and we already have a word for it; IANAR.

IANAR was, IIRC, self-diagnosed.  It was his cover for having a head full of bad wiring, which is another issue altogether.

Yeah, dude is all kinds of messed up. Internet self-diagnosis of Aspergers is just the tip of the iceberg. Seems like he's got a personality disorder, if you ask me.

We Doktors refer to that disorder as "Being a dick".

 :lulz:
“I’m guessing it was January 2007, a meeting in Bethesda, we got a bag of bees and just started smashing them on the desk,” Charles Wick said. “It was very complicated.”

“People get used to anything. The less you think about your oppression, the more your tolerance for it grows. After a while, people just think oppression is the normal state of things. But to become free, you have to be acutely aware of being a slave.”
― Assata Shaku